Spell requests: Summon Hero & Alter Shard

Summon Hero is too powerful with immortal champions, imho (unless it has some ridiculous requirement that isn't mana). Alter shard I support, but it must cost a lot of mana, and the AI would have to understand it perfectly.

If there is a cap of how many champions you can have, there shouldn't be a problem. It would bring players disadvantaged by starting position on level with those who reach the cap naturally by recruiting heroes off the map. Mind, I argue also for payment of the gold fee as recruiting cost on top of the mana costs.

So please see the spell suggestion in conjunction with the enforcement of a limit on how many heroes a player can have and the gold costs that still apply. 

Summon hero could be a very high level spell that allows you to recruit a specific tier of hero. I agree that it could be too powerful until late game. It would also allow for a little more excitement and personality where heroes are concerned, which I think we can all agree is an area of weakness.

I'm not sure I want the game to allow Channeler to summon Heroes.

Recall a hero that you have from the map to you That I don't mind.

As for changing the shard when I first read it I thought to myself no way... then the more i think about it the more sense it makes.

It could be like an enchantment, Normally a shard give you mana and a bonus for the type. When you cast the spell to change the type it no longer gives you mana but you gain the bonus of the type of your choice.

I really can't see changing all the shards to air and gaining all the advantages of it. Too powerful.

It might be also worthwhile to think about escalating costs, depending of how many heroes the casting player already has.

If the player has no heroes then the casting costs a fairly low. But when the casting has, let's say, 3 heroes already then the summon costs rise sharply.

I agree that the spell(s) should only summon heroes of a specific tier but also of the faction the caster is of.   

I think this more of a numbers matter and depends of how spells scale. Also here there a lot of possibilities to limit any abuse.  

The main point of these spells is to lessen the impact of the starting position over the course of the game, so players aren't that often screwed by the map generator.  

I find it challenging to have a map that does not balance everything. If I am a fire mage and I have no fire shard but my enemy has 3 then I have a lot of fighting to do to get them.

If balance is all that matters then yes alter shards becomes important.

Personally I think balance is overated.

The challenge should come by the chosen difficulty setting, the AI and the possible human adversary, should multiplayer be added it at a later stage. 

I'm definitely for adapting to the map you get. But there's a thin line beyond that you/the enemy are outright scammed by the random map generator. 

Sure now the AI is almost non existent and it might be a pleasant experience to have to fight the odds. But let's turn it around: You have all the fire shards in near vicinity and the enemy AI is the fire mage. Now you know you won't have anything to fear from the AI and steam roll it even harder as you usually do    

QFT - This is exactly why I play.  I like to have a challenge.  I don't want to win everytime.  I don't want an equal start or a generic start that I will always know and always play the same way.  I like to have a random challenge that is what makes the game fun.  IMHO.

Well, then ramp up the difficulty settings. That's where you should get the challenge beyond the challenge you get from the skill of your opponent on equal footing.

I wouldn't mind some super-high level Heroic Age spell, which costs 1000 mana, and pops heroes all over the map randomly.

Corruption allows changing of shards, but it's bugged. 

No, I'm not looking for a cheating AI or an opponent that has supernatural consitution.  I simply like the randomness of map generation.  I say, if you want to have a shard of your type right by your starting location with balanced heroes next to each leader, then make your own map and play that.  We will have the map editor for exactly that purpose.  

Can we please not unrandomize the random maps. 

I like the spells but I don't want a hero limit. Now if the Hero limit was an option to set much like in AOW:SM then that would be ok.

I use my Champions like Generals I try to put one Champ per army stack if you put these limites on Champs this would really cramp the way I like to play these games.

They already have a balance map setting and out of the 50 games I've played so far in .77 they have been pretty balanced.

1. Summon champion - too powerful. Recall champion instead, as mentioned above

2. Alter shard -

Could be used once on a shard

d100:

1-4. Super alter - it changed and now works as 2 shards (new graphics needed)

5-60. Success

61-89. Fail. It changed to other random colour

90-96 - Fail more - it is destroyed

97-00 - Fail even more - destroyed with a nuke blast 

Yes I do like pen and paper RPG mechanics;)

I prefer random events based on prestige to recruit extra Champions. That said, a spell that summons a unique (per faction) Champion could be cool.

Well they do have an alter death shard spell that will turn a shard into a death shard. So I think there should be a seperat spell for each type.

If you're starting position is bereft of heroes, maybe your kingdom's strategy should be one that isn't dependent on heroes?  Just a thought.

It's a strategy game ffs.  You're supposed to have to adapt your thinking based on what's going on in the game.  That means the game is working.  

Also why a hero limit?  And why 4?  Why not 3, 2, 7, 12?  If your strategy IS to have a hero dominated military how ridiculously strong will heroes need to be so that 4 heroes make for a viable army once the game is balanced?  

As for shards, I personally don't like it, but I guess as long it was very expensive and the AI could use it effectively it would be passable. I'd prefer a world where resources matter more.  Wars should be fought over resources and in Elemental shards are the most important resource.  This spell would make them less strategically important as you could just flip one of your less desirable ones to a more desirable one. 

I like both of these.

Yeah, skipping up one of the majors features because of a random seed value sounds like fun. And there is nothing you can do about it. On top as heroes are potentially the strongest units in the game right after the sovereign missing out on them will lead to lose when facing a decent opponent, which the AI unfortunately is not at the moment. 

But hey my neighbor was more lucky and got 6 heroes. Now he is marching with them at my gates with a stack of heroes, which when defeated just resurrect in the nearest city. 

Yeah sure - deal with it. But how? Currently you can't remedy it. If you miss out on heroes, you are pretty much screwed. As heroes act as superior units they don't have natural counters.  

Why the hero limit? Well if there is a possible unlimited or huge supply of units that after few fights become stronger than anything you can train than there should be cap of how many you can have. Sure a limit of 4 is as arbitrary as 2, 3, or what ever. The question is: how important should normal units be in this game? The more important normal units should be the lower should be the limit of heroes. So heroes can stay what they are, namely heroes [*g*], without rendering normal units useless. 

It would also put chains on players being overly blessed with recruit-able heroes early.

Actually the current beta lacks so many caps, which also makes it so easy to snow ball out of control right now.  

Well, heroes ARE important because they are HEROES and they pretty much work like that. For instance being lucky and being able to recruit lots of heroes early will turn this game into even more of a cakewalk than it already is.  

Honestly, if one hero is better than a unit of soldiers then they would be already pretty viable. So the bar isn't all too high - no need to push heroes to ridiculous heights. Actually no need to push at all as right now all non-hero units are inferior by miles compared to heroes. But this a different complaint.... 

So far I had very mixed results with the generated maps. Especially considering that you can only recruit heroes of your faction. So sometimes I'm flooded with possible candidates. Sometimes I just get one hero max. Shards are totally random as well.

Another thing that the generator likes to do is placing players next to notable areas. Those location can really mess up the start, depending on how aggressive the mobs act. AIs starting near notable areas are pretty much doomed.   

With the way spells ramp up based on shard type, I am against changing the shards in any way.  Even a random change would be bad as folks could just save / load until they get what they want.

Recalling heroes works for me, summoning new ones does not.  I personally think many of us are too dependent on the 'hero stack'.  No heroes nearby/  Build 4 quick and cheap spearmen units, you'll actually do better with them in many cases regardless.

- Manii Names

Why?  If the AI can be taught how to use it properly, what would be the problem?

The only real exploit I could imagine would be to quickly change several shards to another type, cast a particular spell, then change your shards to the next planned spell.

That one is trivially easy to stop, though.

When you cast your Alter Shard, you create a "being built" shard building.
It takes a long time to build. Time, during which the under-construction shard does not contribute anything to your empire.

In fact, I'd simplify the entire "shard colour" issue.
Whenever a shard is claimed, you get to choose it's colour.
Changing the colour is done the same way, self-destructing the shard building and building a new one in the new colour.
There's no point in using several distinct systems when you can do everything with a single system.
Simple.

That way the player's decisions shape the game - not the random number generator, which can completely screw over a magic-heavy sovereign.

That spells scale up geometrically with the number of shards is a problem with the spell design.
It should not prevent the use of an overall healthier shard colour system.

One way to fix the silly spell power scaling would be dimnishing returns on shards. I can whip up any number of formulas for that. *shrug*

I don't inherently see a problem with spells scaling from a particular shard, and being able to change them. It only changes what the nature of the change-spell is: it's not a short-time quick-fix for your faction, it's a deliberate long-term strategy with a high cost.

The current champion random recruitment is a complete mess. There is a line between having a random setup force you towards a particular strategy and having it make the game a cakewalk or a desperate fight with the same difficulty setting. That and having heroes wander on the map feels particularly unheroic. If I wanted my games to be completely decided at map generation by a random number, I would play Yahtzee, not a strategy game.

 I would much prefer having quests to recruit heroes, or have them propose their services after some events.

I don't like a hard limit on heroes though, unless there was one based on a sovereign stat (but which one? ) or trait, or a faction stat.