LORD-ORION LORD-ORION

Day 0 Changes

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Day 0 Changes

from Demigod Forums

Hehe, trip down memory lane: forgot about this epicness... I should have used some of this as a base for CrazyTown changes (heh, that's kind of sad I didn't actually, and funny that some stuff ended up pretty close)

You can see how some things were over/under nerfed... look at TB, he lost 55% of shatter damage. (pout)

  • ITEMS
    • Heaven's Wrath:
      • Cooldown reduced from 60 to 45 seconds
      • Damage increased from 200 to 250
      • Area of Effect increased from 5 to 7
    • Blade of the Serpent:
      • Returns 75% of damage instead of 50%
      • Damage increased from 10 to 25
      • Mana increased from 210 to
    • Cloak of Night:
      • Cooldown increased from 30 to 60 seconds
      • Damage reduced from 200 to 100
    • Wyrmskin Handguards:
      • Chance to proc reduced from 20% to 15%
      • Damage inflicted reduced from 100 to 60
      • Movement and Attack slow reduced from 25 to 15
    • Furious Blade:
      • Health reduced from 250 to 200
      • Rate of Fire from proc reduced from +50% to +30%
    • Armor of Vengeance:
      • Damage reflected increased from 25 to 35
    • Staff of Renewal:
      • Is now a passive item that gives 20% off cooldowns.
      • Cost increased from 400 to 600.
    • Bloodstone Ring:
      • Lifesteal reduced from 5 to 3.
    • Mageslayer:
      • Lifesteal reduced from 15 to 12%
    • Ashkandor:
      • Lifesteal reduced from 15 to 12%
    • Warpstone:
      • Cooldown increased from 30 to 45 seconds
      • Cost increased from 3500 to 5500 gold
      • Range reduced from 20 to 15 yards
    • Parasite Egg:
      • Cost increased from 4500 to 5000.
    • Summoning Idols:
      • Cost of all Summoning Idols reduced
      • Mana cost of Summoning Idols reduced
      • Cooldown of Summoning Idols reduced from 45 to 30 seconds
      • Casting Time of Sumoning Idols reduced from 1 to 0.5 seconds
  • DEMIGOD STATS
    • Rook
      • Base Health reduced from 1989 to 1900
      • Health per level decreased from 194 to 150.
      • Base Armor reduced from 440 to 240
      • Hammer Slam damage reduced from 600/1100/1600/2100 to 500/900/1300/1700
      • Boulder Roll stun reduced from 2/3/4 to 1.5/2/2.5
    • Oak
      • Damage per level increased from 7.5 to 8.2
      • Base damage increased from 147 to 160
      • Penitence Damage inceased from 75/150/275/300 to 200/400/600/800
      • Penitence Move and Damage multpliers decreased from 10/15/20/25 to 7/10/13/16
      • Surge of Faith radius of affect increased from 10 to 15 yards
      • Surge of Faith cooldown reduced from 15 to 10 seconds
      • Surge of Faith buff duration reduced from 10 to 7 seconds
    • Sedna
      • Health per level increased from 110 to 115
      • Damage per level increased from 7 to 10
      • Pounce damage increased from 350/550/750/1150 to 400/600/800/1000
      • Horn of the Yeti cooldown reduced from 20 to 7 seconds
      • Heal cooldown reduced from 12 to 7 seconds
      • Magnificent Presence Cooldown increased from 5/10/15 to 7/12/17
      • Healing Wind health regeneration increased from 10/20 to 12/24
      • Silence radius of affect increased from 10 to 15 yards
      • Silence energy cost increased from 600/775/950 to 800/900/1000
      • Silence duration changed from 2/4/6 to 3/4/5
    • Erebus
      • Health per level increased from 137 to 145
      • Armor per level increased from 25 to 35
      • Damage per level increased from 7.125 to 8.9
      • Now moves 10% faster
      • Mist form drains 125 mana per second at all levels. Damage inflicted per level increased by 25.
      • Bite damage increased from 200/350/500/650 to 300/500/700/900
      • Bite debuff increased from 2 to 3 seconds
      • Mass Charm creep stun increased from 3/4/6/8 to 3/5/7/9
      • Mass Charm Demigod stun increased from 1/1.5/2/2 to 1/1.5/2/3
    • Queen of Thorns
      • Armor per level increased from 18 to 25
      • Damage per level increased from 7.5 to 9
      • Spike Wave and Ground Spikes now appropriately show as debuffs
      • Bramble Shield cooldown reduced from 15 to 7 seconds
      • Bramble Shield duration reduced from 60 to 30 seconds
      • Bramble Shield absorption increased from 600/800/1000/1200 to 700/950/1200/1450
      • Goddess of Thorns damage reduction duration increased from 5 to 10 seconds
      • Goddess of Thorns shield duration increased from 10 to 20 seconds and damage increased from 25 to 35
      • Mulch Shambler mana cost reduced from 350 to 250
      • Mulch Shambler cooldown reduced from 10 to 7 seconds
      • Summon Shambler cast time reduced from 1 to 0.5 seconds
      • Summon Shambler cooldown reduced from 7 to 5 seconds
    • Torchbearer
      • Circle of Fire's radius increased to 10 for all levels, this makes a marked difference at low levels
      • Shatter damage reduced from 150/300/450/600 to 100/175/250/325
    • Regulus
      • Mine range increased from 10 to 15 yards
    • Unclean Beast
      • Inner Beast Rate of Fire and Movement speeds decreased from 5/10/15 to 3/7/10
      • Venom Spit damage of time component's damage increased
      • Venom Spit mana cost increased from 450/575/700/825 to 500/650/800950
      • Venom Spit cooldown reduced from 10 to 7 seconds
      • Progression of damage reduced, resulting in less DPS as the Beast levels up

They left out some stuff (I checked the original file before posting this)

Spike Wave's hit
Snare reduced by 50% at all levels
30,40,50
vs
15,20,25

Maim's Snare / Duration Increase
10,15,20% @ 1.5 seconds
vs
5,7,10 @ 3

Poison Arrows (cut in 1/2)
20% snare at 30% proc
vs
10% at 15%

Clarify the Increase to Venom Spit (Seriously, WTF??!?!?! Someone actually thought this needed a buff, even back then people were complaining UB was OP)
Old Damage
40,70,100,130 / tick
vs
45,80,115,150 / tick

-Cooldown was decreased from 10 to 7 (this is just neurotic, it is a 10 second effect! Who the f**K thought this was a good idea!!!!!) :D

-But they did raise the mana cost
500, 650, 800,950
vs
450,575,700,825

Bestial Wrath duration was decreased
10,10,10,20
5,5,5,10

Note: Some things have been further changed in patches (LE's stun duration is up, bite was renerfed) but alot of things are still the same.

What went too far?
Opinions?

My thoughts
You can see alot of unused items were hit (some were hit VERY hard, look at warpstone), and some of them wouldn't be used even with the pre day0 values from what we know now (I am looking at you parasite egg hehe)

I kind of like the spread on Pounce, considering how pounce scales now and alot builds don't bother with II,III or IV
400 + 200 per level
vs
350,200,200,400 (Level IV should probably be +350 with this scale)

Shatter was hit way too hard.

How epic would Oak be right now with that damage on Pen? Probably got buffed too high. ;) Should probably be 625 @ level IV like Gspike. :D

demigod
15,820 views 32 replies
Reply #26 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting awuffleablehedgie, reply 25

hey hedge has ever anyone played a general with siege demolisher and bishops, using full minion upgrade skills (the morale pluses) but no actual minions? seems new to me at least.
How you play minion Sedna.

Also, ABornExile used to do that although he stopped pretty fast. He also used Blood instead of RoDM for whatever reason. I've seen Rawr do it once as well...

 
so not really, rather "failed tests" 

I'm almost sure this way generals are way stronger. need more tests though. so far erebus seems stronger that way or at least even, occulus is unstopppable with it late game, queen becomes very viable that way with good teammates.

Reply #27 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting JUSThaveFUN, reply 26

Quoting awuffleablehedgie, reply 25
hey hedge has ever anyone played a general with siege demolisher and bishops, using full minion upgrade skills (the morale pluses) but no actual minions? seems new to me at least.
How you play minion Sedna.

Also, ABornExile used to do that although he stopped pretty fast. He also used Blood instead of RoDM for whatever reason. I've seen Rawr do it once as well...

  so not really, rather "failed tests" 

I'm almost sure this way generals are way stronger. need more tests though. so far erebus seems stronger that way or at least even, occulus is unstopppable with it late game, queen becomes very viable that way with good teammates.

I can tell you why I used to play QoT this way, vs 4 shambler build now

Before, Shamblers were stuck at 30 damage regardless of level, but now they go up 5 per point as of one of the patches.

So Old Shamblers III 4x30= 120 Damage per salvo
New Shamblers III = 4x40= 160 Damage per salvo

That's a significant difference when you consider ground spike, and is slightly higher than the damage bonus provided by morale on 4 ranged idols alone.

 

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Reply #28 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting LORD-ORION, reply 27

Quoting JUSThaveFUN, reply 26
Quoting awuffleablehedgie, reply 25
hey hedge has ever anyone played a general with siege demolisher and bishops, using full minion upgrade skills (the morale pluses) but no actual minions? seems new to me at least.
How you play minion Sedna.

Also, ABornExile used to do that although he stopped pretty fast. He also used Blood instead of RoDM for whatever reason. I've seen Rawr do it once as well...

  so not really, rather "failed tests" 

I'm almost sure this way generals are way stronger. need more tests though. so far erebus seems stronger that way or at least even, occulus is unstopppable with it late game, queen becomes very viable that way with good teammates.
I can tell you why I used to play QoT this way, vs 4 shambler build now

Before, Shamblers were stuck at 30 damage regardless of level, but now they go up 5 per point as of one of the patches.

So Old Shamblers III 4x30= 120 Damage per salvo
New Shamblers III = 4x40= 160 Damage per salvo

That's a significant difference when you consider ground spike, and is slightly higher than the damage bonus provided by morale on 4 ranged idols alone.

 
in my build i don't use shamblers, only first lvl. bishops demos do enough damage with the groundspikes and full + upgrades it seems. to be honest though i copied it from the m

Reply #29 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting Darkliath, reply 9

Quoting Running_Lukas, reply 8One exploit they never fixed was the cheat still used frequently in crucible. People using warpstone, oculus jump and batswarm to bridge the gap between gold flag and health crystal. I don't know what fun anyone has winning a game by doing this, you may as well have invunerability and sit back and never die. I will never play a game on this rediculous map (even the strategical imbalance on this map doesn't bother me too much - that is whoever gets those flags first can easily hold them if they know what their doing).

I think this is just another way to play this map. Warping there is not a cheat in any way, because enemies could also do that. Yes, some demigods have problems in doing that and someone like Regulus are very bad on this map, because of no Cloak or skill to warp. If warpstone was ~1k, then maybe it would be fine. Otherwise this map is just pathetically long match, because creep waves barely push anything. It's not so difficult to protect your own portal flag by locking and keeping portal to teleport back if needed. On this map matches are often coming to the artifact stage, so even with this price, warpstone is useful. And if you manage to stay long enough - Cloak of Elfinkind. Just another layer of strategy/gameplay. Not pushing, but mobility and risk to get portals wins there. Try to play against Nastyblade 1v1 and you'll see his Sedna

 

I still think it's a breaker, because now to play this map every player (or at least one on each side)will need to use this exploit. The map surely wasn't designed to be played like this otherwise why not just insert a short path from the citadel to the gold flag in there. If you don't exploit this map from the start, then the enemy gains the gold and cd flag and easily reclaims it if you manage to cap it. A short jump to their own health crystal and back is a no brainer game breaker.... they get warscore and gold and dominate entire game unless they're completely stupid.... but then even if the people using this exploit start to lose, no problem they d/c the game and get the win anyway.

I solve this problem for myself by not playing that map.

Reply #30 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting Running_Lukas, reply 29

I solve this problem for myself by not playing that map.

Me too, I just avoid that map.

Reply #31 from JoeUser Forums Top

Yeah, but the whole crucible jump thing isn't that hard to counter, to be fair.  Carry a tp scroll... its not that difficult to figure out where someone is on the map, even in fog of war.  Heck, you could even drop a totem of rev down if you really have issues with it.  That said, I don't really like the map all that much. Has nothing to do the that mechanic (I actually like it as it adds to the strategy and forces you to stay on your toes).  On pro levels, late game is such a beotch even if you have beaten the crap out of the other team.  fighting against oak/ice tb so close to the crystal is just a 1 hour mess.  Not really great map design as a whole, though. 

Reply #32 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting OMG_pacov, reply 31
Yeah, but the whole crucible jump thing isn't that hard to counter, to be fair.  Carry a tp scroll... its not that difficult to figure out where someone is on the map, even in fog of war.  Heck, you could even drop a totem of rev down if you really have issues with it.  That said, I don't really like the map all that much. Has nothing to do the that mechanic (I actually like it as it adds to the strategy and forces you to stay on your toes).  On pro levels, late game is such a beotch even if you have beaten the crap out of the other team.  fighting against oak/ice tb so close to the crystal is just a 1 hour mess.  Not really great map design as a whole, though. 

I always wanted a new tower on this map, one on each side of the middle gold flag, because if you can't push or at least hold a demigod, this map is much harder to play once you lose flag control.

Still, the corner leading to the cit can be ridiculous to breach, I think that choke point pretty much wrecks the map.