Blood of the Fallen vs Staff of the Warmage

from Demigod Forums

There is a question down there, but please read through the thought process.

We have 2 items that give a +800 bonus.

One is one of the best items in the game, the other the worst.

Blood of the Fallen vs Staff of the Warmage. 800 life vs 800 mana

It is obvious what they were thinking when this was originally balanced, but clearly, in practice, one of these items is far more valuable then the other.

Additional considerations.

1) When considering life vs mana items, similar costing mana items provide a much larger mana pool then life. eg: Plenor +1500 mana for 1500 gold, where other 1500+ items are not providing +1000 life. The only time this is not the case is on hybrid items that fulfill some practical role. eg: Nature's rec

2) For the most part, you will have more + life items then + mana items in a game.

The Question: So, would it be crazy to say 1 life point is worth 2 mana points on a favor item?

eg: If staff of the Warmage was +1600 mana, would this make it a desirable item (compared to the other top favors) while still being balanced next to things like BoTS? You are getting no regen on this item, just pool.

TeSeer, what would you take for hybrid TB? BoTS still? Or +1600 mana staff of the warmage?

demigod
7,305 views 16 replies
Reply #1 from Demigod Forums Top

BotS adds to your mana pool, about 450 I think?  You just can't compare to  BotS for assassins, your buffed Staff of the Warmage would only be good for a general that had a really good early game ability and didn't rely as much on monks/blood to stay alive.

So yeah, maybe I'd try out the 1600 staff for Queen, but it would still be useless for everyone else I imagine.

Reply #2 from Demigod Forums Top

Honestly, you don't even need to buff the +mana.

I'd think it was a useful item if you gave it +10 MPS on top of the mana.
That's more then Essence of Magic that gives less mana, but it has an activatable effect. 
It's also more then the Cloak of the Night, but again, activatable effect.

Generals don't really have a good mana item so usually (if not going minion) go for BotFag. Would be nice to have the choice of a GOOD mana item over health. Plus, it would take the place of Vlemish in your build, giving you the advantage it gives (less 1 MPS and 250 mana) at the start of the game.

I wouldnt pick it over BotS. That item is my favorite item out of every RPG I've ever played. It completes me :)

A lot of people have no faith in my Failebus (I've had a few DREADFUL games, but do good others :D), but as Erebus or Oak, I'd pick this item. (given the changes above)

Start11 - Customize the Start Menu and Taskbar in Windows 10/11.
Reply #3 from Demigod Forums Top

1600 mana pool increase would definetly make me try this item on nearly every character.

Reply #4 from Demigod Forums Top

I'd use it with Erebus every time if it was +1600 mana since you would get 2 extra bites to restore your HP.

Reply #5 from Demigod Forums Top

5 level 1 bites :D 

But I think that it would only be good for characters that are able to transfer mana into HP. That is: Erebus, Sedna, Queen. 

1600 mana is a LOT early game and you would only ever need one helm (and even that...) allowing you to spam abilities left and right.  It would be a useful item, for sure, in my opinion. 

---

Also, I think Lord Orion is creating a total demigod rebalance mod with all his posting :P 

Reply #6 from Demigod Forums Top

Also, I think Lord Orion is creating a total demigod rebalance mod with all his posting

might also be that there is still a dream that we can submit an idea or 2 to SD to pass onto GPG and see added to the game.  Honestly, I'd give it 25% chance of happening at this point, but hope lives on for now...

Reply #7 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting OMG_pacov, reply 6

Also, I think Lord Orion is creating a total demigod rebalance mod with all his posting
might also be that there is still a dream that we can submit an idea or 2 to SD to pass onto GPG and see added to the game.  Honestly, I'd give it 25% chance of happening at this point, but hope lives on for now...

As I recall, GPG still owes StarDock one patch, but also, what fun is asking these questions without making a mod? :)

Reply #8 from Demigod Forums Top

I don't think any more patches are owed - i think the deal is that GPG said they'd deliver free updates... which means expect something... at some point... on some day...

Reply #9 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting awuffleablehedgie, reply 5
But I think that it would only be good for characters that are able to transfer mana into HP. That is: Erebus, Sedna, Queen.

Rook also has the Power of the Tower -- Structural Transfer combination, although it might not be as efficient as the others (I haven't run the numbers on that).

Reply #10 from Stardock Forums Top

ST has a 10 second cooldown for a 600 heal :/ And you'd end up giving up Slam or Treb/Shoulder Weapons for it. If you're going to be difficult about it. 

Reply #11 from Demigod Forums Top

You won't be getting queen out that lane before level 7 by yourself at the least.

Reply #12 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting awuffleablehedgie, reply 10
ST has a 10 second cooldown for a 600 heal :/ And you'd end up giving up Slam or Treb/Shoulder Weapons for it. If you're going to be difficult about it. 

I forgot about Rook, structural transfer has a 17 second cooldown for 800 heal but the first level is only like 200 mana.  If you give staff of the warmage +1600 mana it would be hard to not take it over staff of renewal.  Especially since actually yes you will be pushing queen out of that lane before level 7 and with the reduced mana on towers at level 10 you could stay out there all day.

Reply #13 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting OMG_blackmage, reply 11
You won't be getting queen out that lane before level 7 by yourself at the least.

.. unless you're Rook.  Fuck rook imo.

Reply #14 from Demigod Forums Top

I like the idea of leaving the +mana bonus alone and giving it +mana regen instead. Generals need a good +mana regen item. They're always taking Blood because there aren't any other good choices (except for cloak in a few cases).

Not sure if it's possible, but it might be nice to add maybe a 5% or 10% skill resistance to it. Mages don't need armor, after all, they need magic resistance.

Reply #15 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting milo896, reply 14
I like the idea of leaving the +mana bonus alone and giving it +mana regen instead. Generals need a good +mana regen item. They're always taking Blood because there aren't any other good choices (except for cloak in a few cases).

Not sure if it's possible, but it might be nice to add maybe a 5% or 10% skill resistance to it. Mages don't need armor, after all, they need magic resistance.

There are + mana favor items.

There are early + mana shop items.

There is no need to encroach a new, superior, item in this territory.

eg: What you gain early game, you pay for late game with lower regen rates.

eg: With a 1600 mana staff, do you take vlemish for subpar regen vs a blood of the fallen, 2 helm build? Or do you take Plenor for an incredible mana pool, and spam skills, that will eventually run out. Hoping to send the enemy running before you are vulnerable to his regenerating mana to use another skill shortly. If you manage to get Hungarlings, you are reaping the reward for your choice and skill.

I am seeing that this idea seems to have merrit. There is a bonus, a penalty, a new play style and proper balance to a favor item category that is one of the worst. Those are Large early mana pool, low mana regen, Mana to Life lane control, and mana pool only item.

Now, as for, is it the right amount? Could be too high, could be too low. I can predict arguments for both depending on play style, level of skill & experience and demigod.

Reply #16 from Demigod Forums Top

Thanks for the feedback.

Look here

http://forums.demigodthegame.com/391028