Building a team/misc discussion

So, I usually post on topics when I'm a bit more thought out, but felt like sharing my current/past experience regarding team play.  This will hopefully give you some insight into how I build teams and perhaps can get some feedback from you. 

I became a part of my 1st premade with Kokujin and Kassaum.  Excellent players from Brazil.  They were good enough to keep me alive while I was getting better at the game and we started using vent.  They came across shade and we all started playing together as result.  I brought in another great player, KalelSmx that I met pugging.  Eventually, Kass and Koku moved on to other things (they'll be back :)) and trousersnake joined the ranks along with purgespam.  All the while, I'm been making friends on the forums and slowly adding to the list of people I play with.  I've been making offers to play with people here and there, and some have taken me up on it (Impossible -  I think you tried to message me, but I'm not getting messages from you... some sort of impulse bug i think re: friends).  Recently, I started playing with Jongalt, paintmaster, and tonight played some with murder. 

There have been great people on the periphery that I've played with on and off, but aren't part of the regular team per se (playing together nightly, etc):  Obscenitor, Atma44x, Killeroak, Boxleitner.  I keep adding to the people I play with and of course, against.

Teams are great and they are also lousy.  They are great in that, once you are used to each other's play style and you have enough experience, it takes an extremely high level of skill to beat you.  You can even be having an off game, and odds are you teammate will be there to back you up, shield/heal/bramble, or chase off whoever is after you.  I might be a pretty good individual player, but I'm really only as good as my team. 

And now... the lousy side of premades IMO - the game eventually starts to lose some of its shine.  Its not something within the nature of demigod either... there are plenty of different settings that can be thrown in to switch things up (high gold, high towers, etc).  There's always something around the corner (fixes, modding, new dgs, etc).  I believe its something that happens with a premade.  People start enjoying winning (amazing, right?).  Some would rather win than have a competative game.  It may sound like as ass thing to say, but winning the majority of the time gets boring.  You can say go play another premade if you want some more competition and I can say, I do and will continue to do so.  My core premade (kalel, shade, trouser, purge) are to the point of not turning down any invite from other teams and typically, when not hosting, try to join games that against premades.  If we haven't played yet, just jump into any game I have open and we can get one going (we're about due, jaybuddai - even if you have a huge tb :)).  That said, most of the time, we don't have premades readily available to play against, so we end up hosting or joining other games. 

Another premade problem for me anyway - huge freaking premades.  If you read a few of the names above, you can see that I play with quite a few people on a regular basis.  This means, we eventually have to host 5v5 games.  I personally don't have any connection problems, but many do... leading to laggy, painful games at that level... and I don't kick someone who's part of the team if 5 or more of us are on.  Sometimes, I try to get fair, evenly balanced us v us games, but some team members aren't for that.  Anyway, minor issues IMO, but issues nonetheless.

Re: team dynamics - some people are great as Puggers in XvX games, but I find that it often takes some time to get a good rhythm going with new teammates.  This eventually click, but I'm not there quite yet with some of my new teammates... soon :)

9,577 views 28 replies
Reply #1 Top

And now... the lousy side of premades IMO - the game eventually starts to lose some of its shine.
End of quote
Gotta say I agree with this. The most fun games I've had lately have been the ones where I joined with you or kalel and we fought full premades with randoms filling out our team, and the one where it was purgespam, I think atma, and me against you, kalel, and one other (I'm certain it was me and purge vs. you and kalel, I can't be certain about the thirds).

It's a shame that as your coordination improves you run out of competition to use it against.

I'm just hoping the next patch brings a lot of people back.

Reply #2 Top

Quoting Obscenitor, reply 1

And now... the lousy side of premades IMO - the game eventually starts to lose some of its shine.Gotta say I agree with this. The most fun games I've had lately have been the ones where I joined with you or kalel and we fought full premades with randoms filling out our team, and the one where it was purgespam, I think atma, and me against you, kalel, and one other (I'm certain it was me and purge vs. you and kalel, I can't be certain about the thirds).
It's a shame that as your coordination improves you run out of competition to use it against.

I'm just hoping the next patch brings a lot of people back.
End of Obscenitor's quote

+1.

Went from playing DG, which my friends and I were pretty decent at, to playing DoW2, which we're terrible at, just so there'd be some interest in actually playing. I'm really not sure how people managed to rack up 100 win streaks, I got bored after about 50 games where less than five would have been close.

Some of the pre vs pre games we had were great. Awesome fun, a couple of 40 minute epics (on default settings) on cataract literally decided by split second decisions over whether to defend our portals or attack our opponents'. But I'm not going to play 3 - 5 games a night and get a single game each week turn out like that, the laggy games, easy wins, constant complaining at premades and all the other crap really does grate after a while/

Reply #3 Top

Hahaha...I don't have a 190 win streak for nothing pac's...my boys aint no slouches!

Reply #4 Top

You damn right I'm no slouch!  Lol Ask this team how far their vent got them! http://pantheon.demigodthegame.com/game/850743/player/56528/

Reply #5 Top

When you have even teams of pros games become epic. Premade Vs. Premade is definetly the way to go. I have had a few epic games in the past 2 weeks due to premade teams vs each other or premade teams splitting up and evening teams out with randoms.

I think Premades need to start learning to split up more. If theres a chance for a good 3v3 match split your premade up into 2 and 1 so we can have a good game. A team of 4 is the easiest to do this with. 2 premade + 2 random vs 2 premade + 2 random can be a ton of fun if your randoms are decent enough players.

My friends and I (Peterdumptruck, Destroyer, Neutral Good, Sipherous, Murder, Dwarf etc...) have been splitting up more recently for better games rather than noob stomps. 

Reply #6 Top

Arranged Team auto match with ladder ftw :drool:

Reply #7 Top

To Pacov: Come play us sometime.  We have a heck of a time finding anyone to play. Just hop in and say you have a team and we'll accomidate.  (Usually we're 3v3 or 4v4).  Next time we see you hosting a game, I'll try and get everyone in your lobby.  (Yeah, that's a real challenge in itself).

To McShane: Come on, man... Bringing that silly game up.  Beating me while I'm using Tower Rook is like beating up the short kid with glasses for his lunch money.  I think we had on experimental build too and Viper's not even on our team.

-- Tukulis

Reply #8 Top

good posts. glad to hear people are interested in having fun games, rather than simply owning people (as is often the case). ive just started playing regularly, and it takes as much time finding an even match as it does to play a game.

Reply #9 Top

I have nothing against premade teams.

 

Hahaha...I don't have a 190 win streak for nothing pac's...my boys aint no slouches!
End of quote

Are you very proud of beating mostly PuGs with your premade team?

I do not see you hosting just one "pro" or "premade" or "good players" or "teams" game in your last 200 games.

Your team may be very good, but I have no idea why you enjoy stomping PuGs in 15 minute (average) games so much.

Reply #10 Top

My apologies CosMoe, but perhaps you should take a closer look at the opponents I have faced in spite of there being no "Pro" or "Premade" in the name. I could post some of them if you'd like? Save you the trouble of having to look?

http://pantheon.demigodthegame.com/game/874799/player/36792/

http://pantheon.demigodthegame.com/game/851259/player/36792/

http://pantheon.demigodthegame.com/game/838241/player/36792/

http://pantheon.demigodthegame.com/game/837983/player/36792/

http://pantheon.demigodthegame.com/game/779406/player/71939/

http://pantheon.demigodthegame.com/game/833959/player/36273/

http://pantheon.demigodthegame.com/game/818211/player/36792/

http://pantheon.demigodthegame.com/game/804657/player/36792/

And this last one is a favorite of mine. Before facing us, this team defeated TrouserSnake69, Yuri77, and KALELsmX (Aka Pacov's boys). Then went on to beat Azure247, Tukulis, and lethstang (All extremely good players). And then went on to defeat Casho, KingC83, and ivorgor (If you don't know who these three are then you don't play demigod). And right as we were about to finish them, they decided it would save their egos the shame to call us "F*gs" and ragequit. Bravo lads!

http://pantheon.demigodthegame.com/game/877873/player/36792/

Lastly I'd like to add that I don't put "Premade" in the title for the basic fact that I enjoy playing demigod, whether the game be easy or difficult. Due to the decreasing number of players and the increasing number of people we defeat, lately im finding it hard to get a game started at all. I do have one rule which I hope others follow aswell though; when people ask if we're premade I answer truthfully. And you'd be surprised how many people stay after they've found out.

Reply #11 Top

Quoting Jaybuddai, reply 10
And this last one is a favorite of mine. Before facing us, this team defeated TrouserSnake69, Yuri77, and KALELsmX (Aka Pacov's boys). Then went on to beat Azure247, Tukilus, and lethstang (All extremely good players). And then went on to defeat Casho, KingC83, and ivorgor (If you don't know who these three are then you don't play demigod). And right as we were about to finish them, they decided it would save their egos the shame to call us "F*gs" and ragequit. Bravo lads!

http://pantheon.demigodthegame.com/game/877873/player/36792/


End of Jaybuddai's quote

I don't actually remember playing these folks.  I think I played a game with Lethstang once or twice, but I don't recognize any of those guys on the other team.  Can you link me to that match?  I can't find it on my list. 8(  (Not trying to be snooty, just trying to remember)

-- Tukulis

Reply #13 Top

First off I have to thank Pacov for allowing Paint and I to play with your team.  It's been great as I learn more about various builds, playstyles and the game in general.

Secondly, premade is the way to go with this game.  It not only provides reliability amongst the players but a depth to the game that just can't really be found in PUGs.

Cow, that's a pretty good idea.  I wish there was a way to link vent or TS servers.  Heck most of the time i'm in both...

On any case, i have server hardware sitting on a nice pipe up in michigan.  My clan uses it for FPS games and TS.  The standard version of teamspeak allows 1000 connections as opposed to ventrillo's 8.  We could setup a large teamspeak server for various premade clans then shuffling games would be a lot easier. 

I just figured i'd offer, let me know if anyone else thinks this is a good idea.

j

Reply #14 Top

X-Fire is also a good program. Free voice hosted by them for up to like 255 people in a channel.

Reply #15 Top

I think Premades need to start learning to split up more. If theres a chance for a good 3v3 match split your premade up into 2 and 1 so we can have a good game. A team of 4 is the easiest to do this with. 2 premade + 2 random vs 2 premade + 2 random can be a ton of fun if your randoms are decent enough players.
End of quote

I agree with this.  I think often the best competion could be within an existing premade... you already have an extremely good idea of what a decent matchup would be.  But like I mentioned in my OP, not everybody in my premade is up for this yet.  That's not to say I feel like premades SHOULD do this from time to time, but IMO, I think it would make things more fun. 

Regarding teamspeak/vent clients, etc - I think the community would be much better off as a whole if it were more common place to use public vent servers, but I don't think I'd leave my own server unless I had channel admin rights on whatever server I'd be on... I don't much enjoy the idea of people jumping in and out as they like during games.  If there was a host vent/teamspeak server that could grant channel admin rights to a team captain AND IF teams were willing to start using these servers, we'd probably see alot more team matches... but of course, teams would have to use these servers regularly for anything much to come of it.

Lastly I'd like to add that I don't put "Premade" in the title for the basic fact that I enjoy playing demigod, whether the game be easy or difficult.
End of quote

Sometimes I put premade in my titles, mostly I don't.  I find that I cannot host as many games anymore (unless I put up a 2v2 PUG) as people recognize my name and know I have a premade. 

Regarding challenging other teams - I'm happy if you can beat me/my team... I like it a little less if I have to see "I'm the greatest, I beat Pacov's team threads" (and if you're are still reading, IKAD, your post regarding the time you guys beat us was perfectly fine with me).  A little ball busting is likely to occur with this game, but I don't think you'll see any "I crushed you" posts from me if my team beats you.  That said, jay - who usually hosts your games?  Same for you, Tuk?  I don't regularly have the same person hosting our games.  I'll keep an eye out and hopefully we can get a game going soon.  Add me as a friend and message or just pop into one of my teams lobbies if you see it (even if its almost full and ask us to play).  I'll do likewise. 

Reply #16 Top

Quoting pacov, reply 15

I think Premades need to start learning to split up more. If theres a chance for a good 3v3 match split your premade up into 2 and 1 so we can have a good game. A team of 4 is the easiest to do this with. 2 premade + 2 random vs 2 premade + 2 random can be a ton of fun if your randoms are decent enough players.
I agree with this.  I think often the best competion could be within an existing premade... you already have an extremely good idea of what a decent matchup would be.  But like I mentioned in my OP, not everybody in my premade is up for this yet.  That's not to say I feel like premades SHOULD do this from time to time, but IMO, I think it would make things more fun.
End of pacov's quote

I don't agree with this. It makes perfect sense for people to play with who they like and are comfortable with. It would be like asking the Red Sox or Yankees to play with 8 guys off the streets each.

Reply #17 Top

Quoting Polynomial, reply 16



Quoting pacov,
reply 15

I think Premades need to start learning to split up more. If theres a chance for a good 3v3 match split your premade up into 2 and 1 so we can have a good game. A team of 4 is the easiest to do this with. 2 premade + 2 random vs 2 premade + 2 random can be a ton of fun if your randoms are decent enough players.
I agree with this.  I think often the best competion could be within an existing premade... you already have an extremely good idea of what a decent matchup would be.  But like I mentioned in my OP, not everybody in my premade is up for this yet.  That's not to say I feel like premades SHOULD do this from time to time, but IMO, I think it would make things more fun.


I don't agree with this. It makes perfect sense for people to play with who they like and are comfortable with. It would be like asking the Red Sox or Yankees to play with 8 guys off the streets each.
End of Polynomial's quote

I just find it more amusing to play a game that requires good play, risk taking, crazy teamwork amongst other things rather than stick with my premade and beat the shit out of pugs.

Reply #18 Top

I don't agree with this. It makes perfect sense for people to play with who they like and are comfortable with. It would be like asking the Red Sox or Yankees to play with 8 guys off the streets each.
End of quote

Poly -  I think you misunderstand my intent (but perhaps not).  I'm merely saying that because I know the playstyles of the majority of the players on my team, I know what good teams would be for an exciting, balanced game against each other. 

I don't have any problem at all with premades... I'm kind of in one... but I'm not applying my personal opinion to premades as a whole out there.  Just my opinion that we'd have some more exciting games on a regular basis playing against each other.  I enjoy that idea, but some on the team don't, so we don't do it as often as I'd like.  Not a big deal. 

Reply #19 Top

Quoting Cowbuttzex, reply 17

Quoting Polynomial, reply 16


Quoting pacov,
reply 15

I think Premades need to start learning to split up more. If theres a chance for a good 3v3 match split your premade up into 2 and 1 so we can have a good game. A team of 4 is the easiest to do this with. 2 premade + 2 random vs 2 premade + 2 random can be a ton of fun if your randoms are decent enough players.
I agree with this.  I think often the best competion could be within an existing premade... you already have an extremely good idea of what a decent matchup would be.  But like I mentioned in my OP, not everybody in my premade is up for this yet.  That's not to say I feel like premades SHOULD do this from time to time, but IMO, I think it would make things more fun.


I don't agree with this. It makes perfect sense for people to play with who they like and are comfortable with. It would be like asking the Red Sox or Yankees to play with 8 guys off the streets each.

I just find it more amusing to play a game that requires good play, risk taking, crazy teamwork amongst other things rather than stick with my premade and beat the shit out of pugs.
End of Cowbuttzex's quote

 

I prefer premade against premade.

Reply #20 Top

Quoting Polynomial, reply 16

I don't agree with this. It makes perfect sense for people to play with who they like and are comfortable with. It would be like asking the Red Sox or Yankees to play with 8 guys off the streets each.
End of Polynomial's quote

Except that you are not the Red Sox or the Yankees.  A better analogy would be a school yard where there are two captains and the captains take turns picking players.  That leads to far better games than having the Yankees playing the local grade school softball team.  We regularly do this (captains that pick teams) in FPS as far back as Quake 1 in 1996.  The community is small enough that mixing up teams should not be an issue.  The lobby system for DG sucks so it is harder to do, but it is possible.

I play with my brother a reasonable amount and would love to get involved in more "pro" games, but a two man premade doesn't stand a chance against a four man premade unless they get real lucky with their teammates.  Even getting a decent 3rd for a 3 man premade proves difficult.

Reply #21 Top

I play with my brother a reasonable amount and would love to get involved in more "pro" games, but a two man premade doesn't stand a chance against a four man premade unless they get real lucky with their teammates.
End of quote

I enjoy 2v2 when possible - if you'd like a smaller premade v premade, I'd enjoy getting some games in. 

Reply #22 Top

I've played RTS games for a long time, ever since original C&C came out. When I got online, I enjoyed winning often, but found it to eventually kill the fun of the game to me. I'm a very competitive type person and love to win, but only when it is a hard match. I don't like to win by miles and smash someone or get stomped from the start and lose by a very large distance.

There are those out there who are pure stat whores. They play for a K/D ratio (or win/lose ratio for DG). They do whatever they can to win even if that involves annoying other players by making unfair/stacked games. There isn't much you can do about them except learn to avoid them in general, if you can remember who it was. A game is meant to be entertaining, and for many just the joy they get from playing it is fine even if they lose or win, some people prefer to win and others MUST win or then try to cheat their way out of a lose.

I basically always Pug vs Pug, though sometimes I run into a stacked team or premade (if there is a diff). The ones who stack/premade vs Pug are just noob stomping to pad their stats, that is all, it is rather pathetic and desperate in my books. I usually enjoy the games which go back and forth and are very challenging, the longer they go for the more challenging they usually are, and much more enjoyable.

Now to ask that stat whore style players, do you get enjoyment from beating down a pug team without even having to use your "skills" because you just smash them in 10-15mins? Don't you get more enjoyment from a game where you actually have to try very hard and use all your skills to attempt to win? The first one, the noobstomp, the noobs usually get little enjoyment from getting their asses outright kicked, getting killed as soon as getting out of the base, and spending more time at the death screen then actually playing. In the challenging game both sides have fun and really get to compete against each other equally.

I'd love to see a note system where I could put a note on someone that I know to join pug games with a stacked/premade team so I remember never to play with them, or don't play with them with a specific set of players on their side. But still can't wait for random teams option in 1.2, I'll be playing those most of the time I reckon.

To others who say, don't you play with friends on your side? I do and I play against them to, it is fun to play with and against someone you know. It is like in a game of cards where you have 4 people, you gang up on someone but after time it gets boring so you turn on your mate, makes the game more interesting and fun. In the end I just play to have fun and I get the most enjoyment out of playing a challenging game, and changing teammates. Many people out there who can be 3 random puggers, can work together quite well as a team. And I get very annoyed with getting stomped in 15 minutes or less by a group that is a premade/stacked who joined or formed a game that didn't mention it, then sometimes they are also very defensive about it and can get aggressive over the chat about it.

Reply #23 Top

Hey Pacov sorry about earlier today, my net and the game have been acting funky all day. Got a couple crashes and had to reset my modem 3 times today. Sorry to everyone playing my games aswell... really agrivating day.

Reply #24 Top

Quoting Polynomial, reply 19



Quoting Cowbuttzex,
reply 17

Quoting Polynomial, reply 16


Quoting pacov,
reply 15

I think Premades need to start learning to split up more. If theres a chance for a good 3v3 match split your premade up into 2 and 1 so we can have a good game. A team of 4 is the easiest to do this with. 2 premade + 2 random vs 2 premade + 2 random can be a ton of fun if your randoms are decent enough players.
I agree with this.  I think often the best competion could be within an existing premade... you already have an extremely good idea of what a decent matchup would be.  But like I mentioned in my OP, not everybody in my premade is up for this yet.  That's not to say I feel like premades SHOULD do this from time to time, but IMO, I think it would make things more fun.


I don't agree with this. It makes perfect sense for people to play with who they like and are comfortable with. It would be like asking the Red Sox or Yankees to play with 8 guys off the streets each.

I just find it more amusing to play a game that requires good play, risk taking, crazy teamwork amongst other things rather than stick with my premade and beat the shit out of pugs.


 

I prefer premade against premade.
End of Polynomial's quote

I do as well and doesn't stand to reason that splitting your premade in half to make a game would than = premade vs premade?

Reply #25 Top

Yes, premades wants to play premades and pugs want to play pugs. Still, makes you wonder why there are so much complaining in the community.