Do you think unit upkeep is too high?

from Sins Forums

I've been recently testing my skills against the hard AI, which prove to be an even challenge for me, but my only complaint is that these games get to the point where you have massive fleets, to combat the AI's similar sized fleet.

I guess my biggest complaint here is that at the highest level of fleet capacity the upkeep is around 75%.  That means for every 100,000 credits earned, you only get 25,000.  And in games where you often meet a stalemate at a certain planet and around 800-900 fleet unit points are destroyed, this makes restoring your fleet very difficult, especially if the AI has more planets than you do (more planets generally equals more tax income).

Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I can get a higher income at the top fleet level, I've tried playing with the trade ports, but I never really notice a difference when I have them.  I'm also trying to resist going to the game files and modding the upkeep.

19,315 views 7 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

If your economy is too weak to support upkeep and you're being beaten by attrition, your problem is probably more in the early game than the late game.  Keep in mind that the AI cheats for extra resources, but is otherwise an idiot.  What's causing your stalemate isn't that upkeep is crippling your economy, but rather that the AI was too stupid to use its massive economic advantage earlier and kill you before you reached 2000 fleet command.  You need to make your moves earlier on to ensure you aren't behind the AI when fleet sizes cap out.  Taking more planets early on might be a good idea; I rarely, if ever, reach 2000 fleet command because the game is usually won before this point is reached.  A great way to get ahead of the AI is in capital ship levels; I find the AI loves to get these guys killed, so you can have multiple level 10's late game when it's still running around with level 2's and 3's because they die so often.

The whole point of upkeep is to prevent stalemates.  While AI idiocy (as usual) is notwithstanding, the idea is to allow stronger economies to crush weaker ones in a battle of attrition.  If you can't keep up in fleet size, and can't compensate with some other strategic or tactical advantage, you will lose.  The AI unfortunately is too stupid to apply its economic advantage, and can lead to the silly stalemates you describe, but in multiplayer upkeep is very important for breaking stalemates.

 

A large empire late game can easily be earning over 200 credits per second.  Even with 75% upkeep, this is often more money than you can actually spend!  Chances are your problem is that your empire is too small for how late in the game it is, and you waited far too long to get out and expand your territory.

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

Well you could mod all of the players to reduce the upkeep taken. LOL, I made a mod once where even at max fleet, it took 0% of my income.

just edit the researchsubject_maxshipslots(race)(#).entity

just look for the lines:

researchModifier
    modifierType "IncomePercLost"
    baseValue 0.000000
    perLevelValue 0.093750 -> change this line to % so that if you were to read this would be 9.375%

Object Desktop - Get all of our enhancement utilities in one suite
Reply #3 from Stardock Forums Top

I've tried playing with the trade ports, but I never really notice a difference when I have them

8C

Trade income is usually many times that of planet income. How are you arranging your trade ports? Remember, the longer the line, the bigger the bonus. It's easy to destroy the line by putting a trade port in the wrong place. Also upgrade your trade ships, this can provide a noticable increase.

Although you might think buying trade ports is expensive, the more you have the greater your income, so it's a wise investment.

It's also a good idea not to upgrade your fleet capacity too early. Only get what you need.

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

Trade income is usually many times that of planet income. How are you arranging your trade ports? Remember, the longer the line, the bigger the bonus. It's easy to destroy the line by putting a trade port in the wrong place. Also upgrade your trade ships, this can provide a noticable increase.

Although you might think buying trade ports is expensive, the more you have the greater your income, so it's a wise investment.

It's also a good idea not to upgrade your fleet capacity too early. Only get what you need.

I don't doubt that sometimes you would break your longest line to opt for a planet with more slots to put more trade ports say a desert planet.

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Fuzzy, reply 3

It's also a good idea not to upgrade your fleet capacity too early. Only get what you need.

Fuzzy Logic, do you also play the original Unreal Tournament (1999)?  I ask because I used to know a Fuzzy Logic who enjoyed playing capture-the-flag pug matches.

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

Fendryx: What race are you playing and what race is the AI? As advent you rarely need more fleet supply than the first 4-5 levels. As TEC your economy should be able to support it no matter what upkeep you are at. As vasari, get the neutrals and upgrade the trade ships and extractors.

The AI cannot handle situations with logic, attack a dead steroid with 10 ships and it will send its entire fleet to protect that asteroid. At the same time, attack a fully upgraded, valuable, planet and it will still defend that aseroid before the planet. In effect, it gets confused.

In a straight war of attrition it is necessary to understand that the hard and unfair AI gets extra resources; to modify a chuck norris joke, If you have 1 extractor, and the AI has 1 extractor, the AI has more extractors than you.

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

Fendryx: you can see a breakdown of credit income by hovering over the credit counter. It takes quite a few trade ports but they make a huge difference when you have enough of them