Still seeing significant connection problems despite all the patching :/

from Demigod Forums

I am aware of all the hours Stardock has been putting into fixing the connectivity errors in the game and I appreciate the hard work but I'm still seeing all sorts of problems with online play:

-I've opened ports multiple ways trying to make sure that my network is passing the data properly.  This includes disabling SPI, opening UDP 6000, 6073 and 6100-6200;  forwarding the entire 6000-6200 range; and explicitly opening 6000, 6073 and all even ports from 6112 to 6132 in both my router and Windows firewall.  I've even taken the time to confirm the ports with a Stardock employee on the IRC channel.

-I've basically given up on connecting to other people's custom games.  It almost never fails that, even if I can get into the lobby for the game there will be at least one other person who has joined who cannot connect to me (though I almost always connect to everyone).  I expect failure when I try to join someone else's game now.

-I host 99% of the games that I do play since I almost never have an issue getting two way connections with anyone.  That doesn't mean that I still don't see a ton of problem with other people who join my game not connecting with others in it.  My experience is that it is exceedingly rare to find any game (my own or someone else's) in which we dont' have at least one player that has to leave because they cannot connect to someone else.

What really takes the cake though, and the reason I'm posting this is the testing and troubleshooting I did yesterday.  Firingsquad has arranged a forum game night for Demigod for this week and another FSer and I decided to give it a test run before hand.  We could not connect to each other in a private custom game.  Being on voice with each other, we proceeded to try to correct the issue but with no success.

We both checked and rechecked all port forwardings.  We started looking at the Reactor logs and found some odd traffic on one end using a port in the 40,000 range so we used ReactorOptions to force the game to use a 7000-7100 range and both opened those ports.  That still didn't work though it did stop the odd port traffic in the logs.

Eventually we both ended up trying to connect with both our PCs in DMZ, Windows firewall disabled and AV software disabled; essentially wide open on the internet, and we still could not connect successfully.  One would connect but the other would be stuck attempting to connect.  If left long enough, it would reset the connections and the othe would connect but the first would then be attempting to connect and it would continue to alternate like that.

There seems to be something quite wrong with the way this game's netcode is trying to connect.  Two moderate to highly tech savvy users should not have this much trouble getting a game to connect.  Two completely exposed and open PCs should never have trouble establing a simple pair of connections like we were experiencing.

At this point, we're looking into setting up a VPN to try and fake LAN connections and possibly avoid some of this.  That should definitely not be necessary but at this point that may be the only option.

I realize that the proxies are supposed to come online today and may resolve some of the connection issues.  The problem is that they really shouldn't be necessary if the end user's ports are forwarded properly.  Proxies are going to be slow and the game already sees enough stuttery play and lag issues as it is.  Proxies will work as a band aid but the underlying issues still should be corrected.

My hope remains that Stardock is able to find the problem and correct it but clearly they have not reached that point just yet.  If any Devs happen to read this I hope it is at least somewhat useful in illustrating what seems to be a clear case of it simply not working when it should.  If they'd like more information or to discuss this particular scenario more I'm certainly willing to help.

-dolynick

demigod
8,120 views 11 replies
Reply #1 from Stardock Forums Top

If you search, there is an excellent post on configuring Hamachi to work with DG.

Right after they enabled LAN this was the only way a buddy and I could ever connect.

Reply #2 from Demigod Forums Top

Just a thought as my networking knowledge is limited. I think it may be an internal router NAT issue. Since even when you DMZ you are still behind the router and your computer has its own internal ip address. So you're routers NAT has to decide which ip this packet is going to and on what port in this case even though you are now technically open to all those high ports 40k range etc... if the game doesn't use that port and your nat is sending it on port 40k or whatever then it still wont connect.

I have had the same problem as you and am pretty sure after getting feedback from other users that its my routers NAT. So I have a couple things in the mean to tinker with when I get home and hopefully I'll be able to resolve this problem :)

So in your case for now if you have a tournament you should be able to connect to him if you plug your self directly into the modem to bypass the router entierly (you bypass your NAT so no more funny ports and u should connect to him 100% no problem).

Here is my original post http://forums.demigodthegame.com/352707 read what the first contributor wrote it sounds like we are both in the same boat :p

Bart.

CursorFX - Customize your Windows cursor
Reply #3 from Stardock Forums Top

That is true so long as the modem itself isn't one that also tries to act like a router.

If it does, you might be able to connect to the modem router management page similar to the way you'd connect to your router's page. You'll just need to figure what IP it is using.

If it comes to that, I would try to turn off DHCP on that modem altogether. Turn it into just being a modem.

Reply #4 from Demigod Forums Top

That's all well and good but it really shouldn't be necessary.

Aside from VPN through this particular router I have never encountered another game or software app that had this many issues connecting despite having the ports it claims to require already forwarded.  Bit Torrent and other P2P apps are fine.  The user in question and I have successfully played a number of different games online together with no issues.  Supcom, also P2P has no issues with my router.  To top it off, it is hit or miss with various other users and who is hosting.  It's very inconsistent where it really shouldn't be.

I must therefore conclude that Demigod is doing -something- different that precludes it from connecting properly between an untold number of users out there despite fairly extreme measures taken and where the vast majority of other similar apps do not have a problem.  I'm not on the dev team but it seems to me that if other games/apps using p2p techniques do successfully connect then it would make more sense to correct said problem than require users to possibly compromise their security (which didn't work anyways), entirely disable the rest of their home network just for this game or resort to having to use hamachi, game ranger or some other VPN like solution in order to be able to connect with certain other users.  I assume that the whole NAT punch through and p2p system was used in order to make it easier for people to connect in the first place, not more difficult.

I did not post this for the puroses of simply ranting or to bitch but rather to try and show that there are still some problems.  Stardock and crew have said that they're "very happy" with the connectivity in the last few patches, seemingly as though it appears to them that the majority of the problems are fixed.  That is not what I am seeing online or from my own experience with the game.

-dolynick

Reply #5 from Demigod Forums Top

If you were to go to the Demigod Technical Support forum then you would see that there are many other people posting about this... and it does seem to be a NAT problem.

Did you try to change your NAT settings to the different modes as described in the forum post that I linked? Even the Cisco article says that there is no way for an application developer to predict how one routers NAT will interact with another its all try it and see what happens. This is why you should try to change ur nat to Full cone or whatever its called to make it less restrictive.

I may have miss understood ur post as asking for help, on how to deal with the problem... however, if you don't want to try to play with the NAT then why not just put this in the Ideas section? :p just a thought.

Reply #6 from Stardock Forums Top

No, you shouldn't have to, but this isn't DG specific and your network should not have to be setup the way it is. One happened before the other is all. If games were working until your network was altered and they stopped working would you blame the games?

I'm sure their goal would be for everyone to just be able to pop the CD in and let it rip, but the reality is that there are too many different ways people can have their networks setup for that to be a possibility. World of Warcraft also has issues with double NATing which is what I *suspect* may be causing you problems especially since you also cited issues with VPN. There are plenty of other PC games that would also have issues. Additionally, you would have trouble with several XBox 360 multiplayer games.

require users to possibly compromise their security (which didn't work anyways), entirely disable the rest of their home network just for this game or resort to having to use hamachi, game ranger or some other VPN like solution

If you are able to connect to your modem and disable it acting as a DHCP like I am talking about then none of the above are required.

Reply #7 from Demigod Forums Top

I'm more likely to get in a game but the game is more likely to lag.  This has been my experience with the 84 patch.

Reply #8 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting jochance, reply 6
No, you shouldn't have to, but this isn't DG specific and your network should not have to be setup the way it is. One happened before the other is all. If games were working until your network was altered and they stopped working would you blame the games?


If you are able to connect to your modem and disable it acting as a DHCP like I am talking about then none of the above are required.

Thank you but my workstation is not using DHCP.  Also, making changes to my network did not stop it from working.  It was never fully working in the first place.  No amount of changing, including removing essentially all security and blocking of internet traffic to the workstation corrects the problem in certain cases.

If you were to go to the Demigod Technical Support forum then you would see that there are many other people posting about this... and it does seem to be a NAT problem.

Did you try to change your NAT settings to the different modes as described in the forum post that I linked? Even the Cisco article says that there is no way for an application developer to predict how one routers NAT will interact with another its all try it and see what happens. This is why you should try to change ur nat to Full cone or whatever its called to make it less restrictive.

I may have miss understood ur post as asking for help, on how to deal with the problem... however, if you don't want to try to play with the NAT then why not just put this in the Ideas section? just a thought.

I have no doubt that NAT is playing a role in the problems people are facing.  While TCP is more or less standardized, NAT implementations can and do vary from router to router.  Unfortunately, there are no options for NAT modes on my router.  More to the point though is that however they implemented the network code for Demigod, it does have issues (seemingly uncorrectable in some cases) with NAT that other many other applications and games (which also use P2P) do not.  Yes, NAT may be the problem but it seems to have a lot to do with the way Demigod is attempting to connect, and the way they have chosen to have it do so.  That is under their control.

My point in all of the above is that at some point in the network code their implementaion has issues with NAT that many other games and apps have already demonstrated do not have to exist.  I can't say how fundamental the problem is but it is still there even through all the various patches.  If they've been rewriting the network code from the ground up, then perhaps they should look at what they are doing differently from say, SupCom, and make changes in accordance.

I didn't post with the express purpose of asking for help, though I won't turn it away if someone offers a fix.  I used to think that it was possible a lot of my own connectivity issues stemmed from improper configurations on the other person's end.  However, after going through the process of complete DMZ on both ends between two people with still no connectivity, something appears to not be right with Demigod's network code as well.

Furthermore, this post isn't just about me and my own connectivity issues.  There are tons of people online who are affected by these issues.  At least 50% of custom games (and I'm being VERY generous here) that I connect to or host see issues where one or more of the people who join cannot properly connect to everyone.  That is an extremely high failure rate for a game which is at heart a multiplayer one.  I've had to leave dozens of lobbies for this reason and I've had to ask dozens of people to leave my own lobbies because they cannot connect to someone.  In many cases they have successfully played other games and I do believe them when they say they have forwarded ports and all that but it is still apparent that the game will not work/connect with them as a participant.  I realize that it's out of their control and mine (I pretty much always connect properly to all when I host, that's not the problem) and it sucks that they have to be turned away and leave dissapointed and in many cases frustrated.  That is the user experience I see all to commonly occuring online right now with Demigod.

Maybe Frogboy and crew are already aware of the above, but if they aren't then that is part of the point of me posting about this.

-dolynick

Reply #9 from Demigod Forums Top

well i cant connect at all after the last patch .. but i guess thats my fault cause my connection settings has been working since release 

Reply #10 from Demigod Forums Top

I have found it easy enough to host games in custom and eject the people who can't connect; however, its worth mentioning that when trying to do Skrimish or Patheon there is no way to eject people and it becomes a real pain when your the one who couldn't connect to one person and are stuck in a game with all bots :)

But yes in your case with the router having no NAT options it sucks and i hope this is eventually fixed... I'm really worried that when proxy servers come up this problem will just be tossed under a rug :(

For now ive even considered getting a new router... but i'll wait till tomorrow and see how things pan out.

Reply #11 from Demigod Forums Top

I'm really worried that when proxy servers come up this problem will just be tossed under a rug

Yes, a point I tried to make in my OP.  Proxies are a band aid, not a fix.  Letting proxies cover up the remaining connectivity problems and setting connectivity fixes on the backburner after that will only inject more lag into the online play experience.  Sometimes there is already more than enough lag already.

But yes in your case with the router having no NAT options it sucks and i hope this is eventually fixed...

I can still play custom if I host without any major issues.  It's a workaround but it lets me play.  Skirmish and Pantheon don't seem so doable though.  I still see tons of people having connectivity issues with each other even when I'm not though.  There is still a widespread problem out there.

-dolynick