Floating an idea

Well as a tech trading "off," tech stealing "on" player, I heartily endorse this idea. I think it would balance military/diplomatic in much the same way a boost to trade income would.

Further on this note, if tech trading could be limited to "close" relations i'd have that switched on to. It would allow the disenfranchised a better chance to slingshot themselves back into the game, kind of like that rigged Daytona arcade game.

Though I suppose the fact that everyone wants to be snuggly with the superpower might make that a not-possible.

I think thats a very good idea. I could even see tech-stealing from flipping planets being more likely than with an invasion. Theres a lot of people on the planet who are friendly to the culturally dominant civ, to the point of rebelling and joining up, so they might be likely to give away a secret or two. Conversely, with an imminent successful military invasion, you would probably have the defenders destroying databanks and information in an attempt to give the conquerors as little as possible. I like the idea a lot.

Sentient species taste better...

On first glance, I heartily agree with this take.



This line actually made me imagine possible objections from the "balance" and/or conquest-win fans.

I have no idea if the code already works this way, but it seems to me that if you have a fairly high intel rating against an enemy, an invasion should have as good or better chances for yielding a tech than a culture flip. Also, if the civ losing a world to you in a flip has high intel on you, their on-planet agents should have a good chance of foiling any efforts to "share" a tech with the new bosses.

p.s. I've barely ever chosen Evil and wonder how common it is to choose that alignment and *not* go for a conquest win?

One thing to consider would be that if you don't want the tech, you can't really prevent a planet from culture flipping to you.  With invasion, you make the decision to invade that planet. 

Another thing to support my idea that tech-stealing from a cultural flip would be more likely, is that you might be able to assume that when a planet is getting close to flipping, that it has been infiltrated or even saturated with agents of the culturally dominant civ.

Sentient species taste better...

I'd be a fan of this idea.

The MCC is getting fixed? Or the description?

Somehow I must've missed the post about that. Is it really in the next patch or just on the to-do list?

I'm new to the game, so there's probably an obvious answer to this, but under what circumstances would you not want another random tech?

I can see techs I wouldn't end up using, but I have yet to notice one that I'd actively avoid.

(PS; Yep... an MCC fix is into patch 1.92)

Not far from what GW Swicord seem to suggest, i also tend to agree with a 'culture-flip' bonus such as a key-tech.
But, i'd be more after the Espionage revamping designs (which, i'm sure is being given a lot of careful thoughts by staff right now) to do a DIRECT steal of a tech once a planet has actually flipped or even, getting near to that status.

A small pop-up would show you what will soon be available, a spy would then be dropped on a tile, espionage points would get spent on the "tasks", and so on.

Enhanced Espionage is full of promises and there is a wide number of areas where technology (info, intel, numbers, turns, clear data, etc) random flips or straight thefts could be used - even the side-bar planets list could benefit from some tied in features of spy activities, Alliances and at War, Statistics - name it.

The MCC is just the tip of a much bigger iceberg, if ever.

I think I'm okay with not being able to "choose" to get the tech. Technologies governments/civilizations don't want happen in real life, and your strategy should be good enough to adapt to them...

I am thinking about Intense Farming and that line. Once you have farms set up to maximize your income/invasion/moral strategies, the last thing you want is some random scientist providing a way to improve the efficency of your farming.

the same may be said for the Industry line. Industrial sector is a heavy expense and if all of the sudden your industries convert to the next level, if you aren't prepared financially, this can hurt you.

I'm pretty sure this is what Cari was talking about, but it points to a different "problem" many of us have mentioned around here.

I'd like to see both tech from flips *and* an option to leave a lower tech as the default for automatic upgrades. Basically, the build queue needs an option for players to mark a tech obsolete for whatever reason (including personal preferences, "I'll never build that silly thing, it's a tile-waster.") Of course, we'd need the complementary option for to bring a tech back out of the mothballs if necessary...

Also if you trade a planet to another player would they gain a tech ?

Can the code distinguish between a flip and a trade?

Would you want it too?

I would. If I'm giving or trading a world away, that is the line item. Having a tech randomly go along with it would be a bad thing. But, I suppose if I'd let the other civ establish a fat intel network in my empire, I might deserve the penalty.

You CAN prevent it, it's just expensive and wasteful. Build then gift influence bases. It has the added bonus of clogging their sector, so they can't build the military or economic bases that would help them more   

Well, you do at least have the option to turn off auto-upgrades and/or build the old version of buildings, right?

Yeah, but it's a dicey road. With larger empires, I don't want to have to manually upgrade every structure once a new tech becomes available. On the other hand, there are certain techs that I simply would never use beyond a certain point (due to cost/benefit).

I am not saying that there is a mid-ground to find, but I want it, whatever it is.

I would not want it to my concern is if the programming code would be able to distinguish so if we made techs stealable by flipping we would also make them stealable by trading . If this is so it sounds like an exploit in the making.

Pertaining to Spies and Missions and Espionage in general... Some things to consider... not necessarily in any order.

1-What kind of control or lack of control will you have over this... If you can't control the impact of a discovery, or are going to be penalized/forced into a course of action because of a random tech appearing, that's not controllable... and could potentially ruin a good game.

2-How automated can all this be for the person who yearns for the days before espionage was in the game? Can it run in the background? Can a governor be assigned to take care of it, with a degree of intelligence or will it have to be babysat by all players irregardless? Can a few specific types of missions be green lighted, after which they are executed by the governor and the results shown in the daily report?

3-Will those that want specific missions and abilities be able to get into the intricacies of the missions, or will they get an extra box to tick with a choice of A,B or C... If I was one of these I would want a basic direction to take first, like stealing techs, providing info, causing trouble and mayhem, causing defections. Then I would want to have specific missions, some long some short but within the confines of my basic direction. This allows the races each to have types of missions they are good at, and some they aren't. Gives "uniqueness" to the races and their espionage abilities.

4-Until we can tell the game what to build and not build, I don't want to be "gifted" anything... not even from an outright takeover... But if I have a choice to steal or receive a specific thing I want from a list of 3 or 4 techs, well that changes everything.

5-It does make sense to have sympathizers on a planet due to flip willing to give up a secret or two, but does it make sense for a race to put it's top secret research facility out on the fringe where it's so much more prone to leaks/defection etc.???
My key research planet is close to home, not out in the East Podunk quadrant. If you are going to be able to steal anything, it should involve an agent on a scientific tile for a period of time. An "infiltrator"... If you want demographics or a planet to flip to you because of culture, he needs to be on an embassy tile. If you want money, or to cause economic troubles, a bank. Production, stealing plans fo rships/buildings or to Sabotage such he's on a factory. Put him on the Star Dock and maybe he steals a newfangled ship and flies it back for you to reverse engineer. Maybe he can steal some of that trade good or galactic bonus, or can ruin food production on a farm. Having some loony approach my forward forces with the "secret of the horizontal elevator" just isn't the same thing...

6-There should be a hospital tile improvement. A get well stay well kindof thing. The Terrans can call theirs the "HMO"... Then my spy can go and steal all the good drugs...

T