I have played the beta for many hours. Perhaps, I should add that I do appreciate the concept behind a limiting factor that retards how fast one can expand. Read “pirates.” It just seems that there could be some more plausible device to achieve the same end. On the other hand, maybe the point was to give players a fast track to unleash their weapons early. Personally, I don't mind a long build-up to the first hostile encounter but I can see where many players are just itching to unleash those cool heavy weapons. But wait, we need some "bad guys" to blast. The answer: pirate scum will do nicely! After all, if we were wiping-out some peaceful, minor, hapless, race (that happened to get in our way) we would not enjoy the dealing-out of death as much

the point of the element isnt to slow down initial growth: if you play multiplayer games you will see people constantly and repeatedly using the pirates, its a way to accomplish many different strategies (amongst my favorites being punctures, distractions, pressure on two fronts and sneak attacks!)

its not about slowing you down.

Just because you don't know about what lies beyond your borders doesn't mean someone else (aka pirates) haven't been there. It's completely plausible they'd be there before you.

And in the gameplay-mechanics sense they exist for three reasons:

1) To act as annoyances, and harassment forces.
2) To be hired by you or your enemies in the harassment of other.
3) To act as xp 'leveling' for you Capital Ships as you proceed to colonize outward. Just like in WC3, with creeping to gain xp for your heroes. I know the devs played WC3 and wanted to utilize that aspect. (Don't deny it, Blair!)

I don't!  I even mentionned warcraft 3 in the podcast. However, the pirate mechanics is more inspired by Settlers of Catan  : Cities and Knights.

Just to add a voice to the chorus...

Love the game, not thrilled with the pirates. I understand why they've been included but more often than not, I'd still prefer to play without them.

Personally, I also think a simple option in the random map menu would make this 'issue' disappear with all sides pleased with the outcome. Lord knows I'd have nothing else to say about it. I'm not even sure why balance would be a consideration as I'd assume that players would be able to see whether the option was enabled before they joined a game.

Also adding my two cents - I love the pirates but I welcome the option to increase/decrease time and size of pirate raids. I know you can create maps without them, which I have done, but it would also be a nice bonus to play many of the standard maps without the pirates.

Oh and just for the obligatory praise: I absolutely love this game. As a big homeworld/starcraft/IG/MOO fan this is, in my opinion, the best damn space strategy game I have ever played. I was torturing myself by reading all the various posts before I could grab it at a local store (long story - card stolen, need new card, no online order).

@Blair

Good! Just don't let ICO turn into an over-competitive, bad-natured, gaming ladder like battle.net. WC3 was so un-fun online I had to quit.

This is not the response I would have expected from the person behind Galactic Civilizations. Very, very disappointing. The problem with the pirates is not who they are attacking and its not an annoyance in that it makes the game harder or easier. The problem is conceptual for some people and, if you leave the default timers in place, in the implementation. To just facetiously advise someone to pick maps without pirates (which, by the way, is not displayed anywhere in game) or design your own maps (this has been suggested to death and is just one step above the suggestion: learn to play better) is not the response I was hoping for. It is, though, the exact type of fanboy response that has really derailed this thread and made it useless. And to get Fanboy type responses from Brad Wardell . . . well, its disappointing.

I can't guarantee that Stardock has lost my future business, but I really regret owning any Stardock products at this moment.

Sorry for the further post, but seeing Frogboy's very flippant response to what I would like to think is a legitimate complaint about the game's lack of options is kind of the final straw in a vast bed of disappointment with this game. I'll make it work somehow, but I can't see myself playing this game for months or years like GalCiv or Europa Universalis or the truly deep, serious strategy games.

I dont mind the pirates, I just dont see how they get anything from running suicide missions. What lore/mechanic explains a group of pirates launching into their deaths? Arent pirates more crafty than that?

Well, for what it's worth, you do get the "Pirate Baron" achievement.

Summary/Proposal

Here's what I would like to see the game provide regarding Pirates... I'd like to know how others feel.

1. Nomonclature. At the game-level, create a setting to allow the word Pirate to be replaced in all in-game text. Perhaps a text box where you can enter a free-form name, or maybe a drop-down where you could select Pirate/Mercenary/Renegade/Privateer/Seeker/etc. This is probably the most involved request and one that I can really live without

2. Indicate which maps contain Pirates. AFAIK this is already being considered/implemented.

3. A checkbox to include/exclude pirates on random maps. I am fine with them in the pre-constructed scenario maps as I appreciate that they are related to balance & map design.

4. A slider to allow the frequency of the Pirate attacks to be configured. I like the stepped idea suggested earlier in increments of 6 minutes. So from 6 to 60 would be good. This would affect all maps that include Pirates. Behind the scenes, I think the AI's that rely on Pirates (e.g. Economy) should have their bidding power change inversely to the Pirate frequency. i.e. less Pirates = more bidding strength for AI to use those Pirates. ATM i think the AI-Pirate-Bid value is 15 for the Economy AI, so at a frequence of 6mins, i'd change this to 10; 18mins=20; 24mins=25; etc. Assuming this is the related value!!!

5. User Interface. The main UI really needs somewhere that indicates whether you are Wanted or not. ATM I find myself baby-stting the massive Pirate dialogue to monitor who is wanted so I protect myself from being sniped by an enemy AI. It seems that the call-out for when the bounty against you has increased is either unreliable or easily missed. A visual queue on the HUD would be much appreciated.

These are just my thoughts and desires, and I'm not expecting anything, but I'd like to voice them so others can comment. I'm glad the Pirates are in game and but I would like some control over them - preferably in some way that doesn't affect all those players who are really happy with the current configuration.

Thanks for listening!

I think the whole idea of pirates could be fleshed out a bit more (without making them into a fourth faction).

IMHO, pirates should be the unstable, unpredictable element that makes the player pause before he/she does a "sure thing". That's why I'm against the "timer" idea. It feels very artificial... not organic.

Again, I believe pirates should be affected by "market forces" so-to-speak. They should tend to attack more often and/or in greater number when the player and enemies have more resources (i.e. wealth). That would be much more realistic (and opportunistic) than a sliding fixed-timer scale.

But I think unpredictability is really important. It adds to the tension when you can't be sure if the bribe worked, and when the pirates will or will not attack.

Fixed-timer scheduling is annoying like a snooze alarm.

The existence of pirates if fine.. The only thing I do not like about them is they are a bit excessive in the size of their fleets..

Anyone here ever played Civ4?

Ever notice in your economic summary there's something called "inflation"? A variable that you CANNOT control or correct for, and isn't affected by any buildings or civic choices; but it's there primarily to suck up money so that your economy doesn't grow wildly out of control?

Pirates in Sins are exactly the same thing, but at least we get the bounty-sniping part to fool our brain into thinking it's not just a necessary "fudge factor". Getting rid of them would totally change the complexion of the game, for better or for worse.

That's not really what inflation is... Also there are better game mechanics keeping you from hoarding $texas.

Inflation is not explained at all by any of the documentation in CIV, so you tell me what it is and why pirates aren't the same thing. Your reply is pretty nonsensical.

Well in the game it simulates the rise of goods and services. Pirates in Sins are a neutral faction that you can manipulate to do things. You can't change another nation's inflation in Civ 4. Also '$texas' means large amounts of money.

I was speaking in terms of the fudge factor inherent to all these types of games, not the actual representation of it in game.

So it's not just me. I try to come up with a good strategy and it works ok, and then all of a sudden an immense PIRATE fleet is coming out of nowhere. Annoying the first time, but when you realise its part of a repetitive game mechanics ... No, it is not logic in a strategy civ game. I have already had a few Galciv 2 campaigns seriously disturbed / ruined by the Pirate mega event, and now they are in Sins too. So, the best news of the day is that there will apparently be a patch pretty quickly to make this "option" or whatever you can call the pirate fleets, just that: optional.

Yeah, but how would the game work without Pirates eating up the majority of your resources, either through attrition or bribery? It's clear that Pirates are necessary, taking them out might as well be adding an "I win" button to the UI.

My 1st game pirates raided me all the time. I just sent a few waves of light frigates at them with my Capital ship upgraded gauss rail gun & pwned them.

I actually welcome early pirate raids as it gives my capital crew experience and upgrades making me much more powerfull later on (provided i dont loose my capital ship).

First off, thanks for the thoughtful reply; however, I just read the TEC faction section and I see nothing to explain the role of the pirates? In fact, the story line suggests that the Trade Order was/is a highly regulated and peaceful civilization yet one that was not tolerant. It seems odd that they had the will and force-of-arms to expel the population of an entire planet. Why then would they tolerate deviant pirates in trader space raiding their ships? I would have imagined the pirates surely would face a fate worse than the Advent ancestors.

Before going further, after reading your post I do have a much better sense as why some find them appealing in terms of strategic play. I suppose some of us are too hung-up on the idea that the framework of the game be based on a moving, epic, plausible back-story. I guess we just need to get over it and go with the flow. With that, avast there, ye scurvy dogs, I be one with the pirates, and pass me some rum.

Hi im new to the game infact i dont even have it yet still waiting for amazon to ship it to me . but i was curious wether people like pirates or dont like them i play world in conflict and it seems like pirates will turn out to be what arty did for wic; hihgly anticipated but sadly disappointing and despised upon release. just wondering if this was true or if im wrong

The Pirates feature is so much fun, but it could use work. Sliders (already mentioned) and...more depth!

I have only had one problem with them before realizing how to sway them to my favor, and the only problem I have now is having to switch my fleet's auto attack off whenever pirates are merely passing through. (btw, is it too much to add a "Hold Position" command on the MAIN command bar? I keep telling my ships to stop, but they continue to pursue unless I switch off auto attack...but that may just be nitpicking =P)

I've seen many posts over the past few days stating "Why do pirates even exist? It is hard for me to take a realistic space game seriously thinking about swashbuckling pirates"
First off, Space Pirates are not a new concept, and is used in almost every space related fantasy. With space being like the wild west of the future, you'll inevitably have a band of like minded beings wanting to steal, kill, and profit in any way possible.

That being said, Sin's pirates are more imperial than anything. Why not have fewer ships, yet add a few larger vessels (almost like capital ship quality but weaker) unique to the pirates. Let the main ability be large hanger bays letting loose squadrons of fighter/bombers (an exceptional quantity), and the rest of the fleet consist of maybe a few cruisers and a handful of assorted frigates.

When I think "space pirates" I don't think of a mass of 30 frigates/cruisers. I think of one or two large ships with an escort, and multiple starfighters for quick strikes.

And with the supply and demand of bounties, their fleet can "eventually" grow.

Also, perhaps for future updates how about some more options with the pirates? Kind of like faction standing for being such a great customer....though since they ARE pirates, they wouldn't be a trusted ally, just "mutual" partner.

I don't know, just some thoughts about a great feature.