TheGreatEmperor TheGreatEmperor

We're making progress in Iraq

We're making progress in Iraq

A message from the Government

http://www.adbusters.org/abtv/player.php?id=391
565,398 views 299 replies
Reply #226 Top
Oh stuff it will ya.

Its time to start another topic, one not about the Middle East, or Ismal.
Reply #227 Top
The cultural differences are great. Great enough to make a generalisation such as European ridiculous. Like generalisations about Muslims. Or Islam.

or American?
I can make the same claim.
Reply #229 Top
Ok how about what is the best kind of pie?

I contend that only pumkin pie has the moral fiber to be considered the best kind of pie!    Apple pie is for imperialistic capitalists!
Reply #230 Top
Apple pie is for imperialistic capitalists!


Now thats just not nice, its not the Apple pie's fault that jerky people like it.


But I agree, pumkin is dellicious
Reply #231 Top

No, there's no supply limited medical system here and medicines are comparably cheaper in Sweden.

If you have socialized medical care, then it is supply limited.


In the same way that if the sun is overhead, it's day time. It's a QED situation. I can explain what supply limited means if you don't understand it.

But, the doctors are more restrictive. I'm not sure but i think it's the doctor that decides what medicines and how much a patient gets even in the USA. I read the statistic in a Swedish article, which got the numbers from a book called Artificial Happiness: The Dark Side of the New Happy Class. But you'll find the numbers on the internet if you look. Here's a link: http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/06/12/news/notes.php

That's interesting, but it's not accurate. In the same way that if an article said 15 percent of the swedish population were female... it's just way off.


Perhaps 5 percent are on anti depressants. And that might not even be the case any more. They were a "fad" at one point and there was wide spread prescription of them to deal with emotional, behavioral, and educational issues. But that's largely been discredited.


So your figures might be right but be about 10 years old. There was a spike in their usage that went away about as quickly as it came through.


The cultural differences in Europe is big, even within many countries. EU has only tied the countries closer on an economic level. For example, Sweden has a lot in common with the other Scandinavian nations, but is very different to Greece. And our governmental system is very different to that of Britain.

The south is different from the midwest, the midwest is different from new england, new england is different from the pacific states, the pacific states are different from Alaska, and Alaska is different from the Island territories.


You either under estimate the amount of diversity in the US or over estimate your own.



No, it is not. There are countries within the union that want more centralised powers but the majority is against it.

Every year you become more closely tied. Perhaps the merge is more slow then I think it is, but it is consistent.


Or maybe we just don't want to go guns blazing around the world. The public opinion in most of the countries are clearly against it. As would the people of the USA have been if the government wouldn't have lied about the reasons for the invasion of Iraq. You know WMD:s and a link between Saddam and Al Qaeda.

Europe was very different before it was weak.


Both europe and Japan decided to go pacifist after WW2 when prior to that point they were anything but.


It is a philosophy born of loss and weakness. Two conditions that will fade with time.



What has that to do with anything? The Norwegian and Swedish culture is almost the same even though we deported Norwegian freedom fighters (terrorists) directly to the Germans during the WW2. And, well, the enemies you have right now you have created yourself.

Irrelevant. Modern times please. In WW2 Japan was our bitter enemy and today they are close allies.


You can't reference things that happened in WW2, it's old history now. The world has changed too much since.

No we have different currencies, Sweden is not part of the monetary union.

Very well, that's why I asked you to correct me if I was wrong.


Exactly. I was referring to the differences in lifestyle, morals, religion, and ways of thinking, not the languages.

Very well, then your opinion comes from your underestimation of the differences between different places in the US.

You can either take my word for it, or come to the US and see for yourself... the US is very diverse.


Yep, there are parts in Europe that's more religious. Portugal, again, for example. We have our own bible belt here in Sweden, not far from where i was born. But they are not as fundamentalist. New York may be atheistic in your mind, but i never think a Atheist mayor would stand any chance to be elected.

You haven't been paying attention then. New York is very much like that.


As to portugal being religious, are the churches full? Because that's one thing I always notice in europe... empty churches.


In the US... especially in the bible belt, they're full. So full in some places that they build huge 10,000 person super churches.



No i don't think i overestimate it. I know there's more similarities between Sweden and Spain then it is between us and say Malaysia.
Europe has a population of 730 million.

First, that was my point... you are more similiar to each other then other countries are to you.


Your are more similar to each other then to the US, then to Canada, then to Austrialia, then Israel, then to Japan, or then South Korea. Yet all of those countries are liberal democratic countries that offer as many rights as your own countries or more.

Second, where did you get that number? I count 490 million.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ee.html

That's the whole EU... so where are you getting the other 240 million? The US is 300 million so the EU has 190 million more people in it... or a ratio of 1.63 europeans for every one american. Perhaps of interest, the US has a GDP of 11 trillion and the EU has one of 13 trillion... so 1.18 dollars made in europe for every one in America. So on average a 72.4 percent higher production rate per person...

Not that it matters in this discussion...


Your second largest city is Los Angeles with a population of 3,819,951. Only Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Macedonia and Slovenia have less population. And, as you know, these are all new nations formed since the 90:s.

That's only if you look at the core of the city. If you take in the larger metropolitan area the number is much higher. LA is about 19 million if you include the FULL city. That's about everything around LA in about 10 miles. There are two very small cities within LA that would be included in that, but those exist within LA. Santa Monica, Beverly Hills, and Culver City are technically different cities as they have different governments. But they're IN LA like a blueberry is in a blueberry muffin. So they're really part of LA... especially since they both belong to Los Angeles County. LA has defacto control over many of these cities because it controls everything around them. If one of the little cities gets into a big fight with LA, it can change bus routes, traffic laws... or mess with the water and power. It's all one city really.

And i don't slam back, just food for your thoughts.

Not at all... I'm just trying to clear up some common confusions between americans and Europeans. Europeans often think of the US as just another country in the same way that spain or Norway is just another country. But the fact of the matter is that it's a large diverse country with few peers, while most european countries are comparatively small, homogeneous, and have several similar nations within close proximity. The only nation with a similar culture to the US is Canada... and even then they're only similar to ONE part of the US... New England. Their culture is unlike any other culture in the US BUT New England. And there are even variations within New England.

Reply #232 Top
Oh Karma, you ruined our intellectual pie discussion!!!
Reply #233 Top
I made a big error in my math back there... production difference is 21 percent... I don't know where I got the 72 percent from...

again... this isn't relevant to the discussion but I felt like playing with the numbers considering I had them all in front of me...
Reply #234 Top
the US has a GDP of 11 trillion and the EU has one of 13 trillion

its closer to 13 and 14 respectively, allthough they are really projections and estimations.
Oh Karma, you ruined our intellectual pie discussion!!!

apple, you commies.
Reply #235 Top
You're right, I haven't looked at the US's GDP in ages... it used to be 11... guess that's inflation or something.

that only makes the relative difference in production per person wider though. Practically a 60 percent difference because the EU has 60 percent more people in it but roughly the same production.
Reply #236 Top
The EU has less land an natural resources, your missing that part of your arguement.

Hey, apples are red sometimes, guess their communist too

Come on Schem, let your inner repressed scrawny sick looking socialistic side roam free for once
Reply #237 Top
You're right, I haven't looked at the US's GDP in ages... it used to be 11... guess that's inflation or something

*shrug* even with inflation its more money, although granted the numbers are tricksters.
that only makes the relative difference in production per person wider though. Practically a 60 percent difference because the EU has 60 percent more people in it but roughly the same production.

recent study said that americans are both amongst the top in production-per-hour and hours placed into production. (hah, you myth toting euro/expatriot-xenophobes!) its no real surprise given our market and the trends of our very active populace that our GDP per capita is amongst the best in the world. excluding many european cash-hubs (indeed, I'm hinting something here) US is at the top.
Hey, apples are red sometimes, guess their communist too

only before you skin them and put on cinnamon.
Reply #238 Top
only before you skin them and put on cinnamon.


Then they are yellow. But it still fits I guess.

capatalistic cowards
Reply #239 Top

The EU has less land an natural resources, your missing that part of your arguement.

Only because of Alaska... I don't think we make "that" much money off of things we get from alaska. The lower 48 is almost the exact same size as the EU in raw land mass figures.

Though I grant you have a point there.

Reply #240 Top
The lower 48 is almost the exact same size as the EU in raw land mass figures.


The lower 48 states comprises over 9 million sq. miles (alaska is 663,000 sq miles) while the entire EU comprises 3.2 million sq miles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1_E12_m%C2%B2

The US is about 3 times larger than the EU and its resources have not been exploited nearly as long as the EU's (except for oil the US could easiely be self-sufficient if we wanted to be). The US IS more productive than the EU...but also consider that the EU not only includes the rich nations like Germany, France, and England, but also poorer countries that are catching up like Poland, Hungary, and the Czech Republic.

Then they are yellow. But it still fits I guess.
capatalistic cowards


What about green apples?

(could it be that green apple pie eaters are sickening?   )

In any case, pumpkin pie eaters will never oppress you in a capitalistic way! (only in communistic ones   )
Reply #241 Top

The lower 48 is almost the exact same size as the EU in raw land mass figures.


The lower 48 states comprises over 9 million sq. miles (alaska is 663,000 sq miles) while the entire EU comprises 3.2 million sq miles.

No. The total US land mass including alaska is :5,692,943 square miles.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/us.html
The factbook puts it in kilometers so you need to convert it.
Alaska further more is 656,400 square miles in size. This link has a nice picture and everything.
http://www.mms.gov/alaska/aboutak/aksize/aksize.htm

So that's 5,692,943-656,400=5,036,543
The EU is:
2,687,289 square miles (Factbook). So the EU is really a little more then half the size of the US.

I'll note as well that Greenland isn't included as part of the EU here even though technically it's owned by Denmark. That alone would add 677,676 square miles to the EU.


The US is about 3 times larger than the EU and its resources have not been exploited nearly as long as the EU's (except for oil the US could easiely be self-sufficient if we wanted to be). The US IS more productive than the EU...but also consider that the EU not only includes the rich nations like Germany, France, and England, but also poorer countries that are catching up like Poland, Hungary, and the Czech Republic.

Most countries could be self sufficient if they "needed" to be... the EU certainly could be.

As to poor countries in europe, the US has poor states. Michigan for example... old home of the US auto industry is doing very poorly largely because they've systematically killed the one business their state was good at... making cars. Between the executives making bad decisions and the auto workers striking if they don't get paid as much as college graduates for knowing how to weld... the whole thing has fallen apart. To say nothing of many regions in the south that haven't been productive since the civil war. You want to see poor? There are many parts of the US that might surprise you. Now, one the bright side, these people ultimately choose to live as they do because nothing stops them from getting a decent education and moving to some other place where there are good jobs. I'm not feeling sorry for people that flunked high school and then can't be bothered to leave some town that's been dying for 100 years because it's lost it's reason to exist. Quite a few towns in the south should have gone the way of the Western mining towns... abandoned to the tumbleweeds.


As to exploitation, about the only thing europe has exploited more then the US is lumber. Older civilizations in europe were either unaware, uninterested, or unable to exploit most modern resources. I mean, are you going to tell me that ancient people's in europe were mining nickel or aluminum? Sure, they were mining, iron, gold, silver, and copper... but they couldn't have gotten as deep as modern mines... and the US played out that depth of mining by the turn of the century. We caught up with them very quickly.


and lumber... grows back.
Reply #242 Top
9 million sq. miles (alaska is 663,000 sq miles) while the entire EU comprises 3.2 million sq miles.


Sorry my figures were in sq. km not sq miles. I looked at the CIA worldfact book figures and we are about twice as large as you said Karma...but that is a lot more land for: resource gathering, farming, herding, and population growth. We are NOT

almost the exact same size as the EU in raw land mass figures


Twice as big is no where close to "almost the exact same size." Furthermore, while we do have poorer states, none of our states has had to recover from communism while all of Eastern Europe is having to do exactely that.

As of August 2007, the state with the highest unemployment rate was Michigan with 7.4%.
http://www.bls.gov/lau/home.htm

Slovakia, which as you probably know was once in the Soivet bloc, has the highest unemployment in the EU at 10.8%
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_European_Union#Economies_of_member_states

The problems of recovering from decades of communist mismanagement are probably just a bit more significant than the problems of a declining auto industry for a US state don't you think? Yet, those nations ARE recovering and the EU's economy will grow stronger in relation to the US economy as those nations recover.

In addition, the Euro (which was not adopted by many Scandanavian nations or the UK) has been mercilessly trounching the dollar on the money markets since 2002.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euro#Against_other_major_currencies

Finally, don't overestimate the differences in the US. Yes the North, South, and West do have significantly varying cultures. But consider that we all have the same language (which is VERY significant to culture as passing on ideas and associating with other people becomes very difficult if there is a language barrier).

I currently live in the South but I've moved and lived in many areas of the country. Going out West or up North there is a (blessed) decrease in bible thumpers...but Christianity isn't dead in those areas.

Americans have a set of holidays which are similar and similarly practiced throughout our nation (like the Fourth of July always has fireworks and Christmas shopping is crazy after Thanksgiving, which must have a big feast preferably with turkey, in all sections of the nation). American food (like hot dogs, hamburgers, and apple pie, and yes I know those foods originated in other areas but they've been adopted as American) is just as prevalent in Alaska as it is in Key West.

In contrast, Europe only has a few Europe-wide holidays and they are celebrated very differently in different nations. Food choices are extremely different in places like Poland and Italy compared to the US. Then there are the multitude of languages which exist across the continent. The US is united by basically one history, Europe has dozens of different histories with only some sense of shared experience as opposed to the US. Europe is a VERY diverse place compared to the US and don't forget it.
Reply #243 Top
Recover from communism? Brother, the south still hasn't recovered fully from slavery, the civil war, and generations of bigotry and racial discrimination. At least in eastern europe they're "one people"... in the south you still have that black v white rivalry bs which makes it very hard to get anything done. To say nothing of a local culture that has so many problems with it I almost don't know where to start.


Again, you want to see poor areas in the US, I can show them to you. Diversity of economic situation is something the US has. In fact, the US is often criticized for having a wider gap between rich and poor then europe.


Well... as we're talking about diversity... there's the gap. Case closed.
Reply #244 Top
The problems of recovering from decades of communist mismanagement are probably just a bit more significant than the problems of a declining auto industry for a US state don't you think? Yet, those nations ARE recovering and the EU's economy will grow stronger in relation to the US economy as those nations recover.

again the ONLY countries that outmatch us in terms of GDP per capita are small *cough* bank *cough* "industry" countries. guess where they get most of their income from? hint: it ain't exactly moral

even if all of your states matched britain or france or germany, we still have a stronger economy.
Reply #245 Top
again the ONLY countries that outmatch us in terms of GDP per capita are small *cough* bank *cough* "industry" countries. guess where they get most of their income from? hint: it ain't exactly moral

even if all of your states matched britain or france or germany, we still have a stronger economy.


This is like saying, guess how much of our government belongs to China?

You are using a false card here. Money doesn't belong to any country really.


Reply #246 Top
Ever heard the saying "Money goes where it is wanted and stays where it is well treated."


Think about that.
Reply #247 Top
Money doesn't belong to any country really.

it belongs to the country that made it. namely the empire of schod.

my point being that their biggest forms of income are drugs and organized crime, if indirectly. "questionable" dollars pay quite well.
Reply #248 Top
Indeed.

Now back to my Karma assigned job.

Trolling, trolling, trolling.

Hey look guys I'm a troll!!!
Reply #249 Top
Ireland and Norway have a higher GDP then USA. Don't think any of them have a lot of drug cartels. Or money laundering. Ireland was a surprise to me. Though it was a relatively poor country. Interesting

Either way i prefer to the HDI to GDP to compare countries.
Reply #250 Top
Ireland and Norway have a higher GDP then USA

first of all:
BARELY
like BARELY barely, like 1% barely

second its probably an artifact of "old wealth" and their economic system. I'm not going to go into a detailed analysis as to why here.