why not add defense tactics?

attackers shouldn't get all the fun

from GalCiv2 Forums
it just occurred to me that invasion defnese tactics could be a very interesting part of the game.

it's getting harder and harder to build large population planets, which in the past has been the primary way i've defended against invasion. in DA, i've found myself relying exclusively on being able to stop the ships before they invade. it's always struck me as odd that the invaders get such a huge bonus and get to lay down the terms of the invasion.

i could understand the rationale for a higher bonus, that it's less likely you'll have as many troops as they. the AI doesn't seem to group transports for a mass invasion ever. but i do, and i think they should too from time to time. moreover, on the level of common sense it seems to me defneders should have the better advantage, since they're more likely fortified and familiar with the terrain.

the planetary defense isn't all that useful. it'd need to be at least a 50% bonus for me to think about using them. as it is, the only reason i research planetary defense is for the soldiering bonus, which i mainly think of in offensive terms.

in any respect, i thought i'd volunteer this idea, since i haven't heard about it yet and it seems like it could be (definate speculation here) fairly easy to add in a later expansion or patch.
warfare
11,724 views 15 replies
Reply #1 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
bump
Reply #2 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
The problem with trying to defend an entire planet from invasion is that... well, it doesn't really work. You don't have space or air superiority... they're floating about uncontested in orbit, so you're vulnerable to whatever they want to drop on you and whatever aircraft they deploy. Additionally, you've got an ENTIRE planet to cover. They can pop down whenever and wherever they please, and you can't possibly react in time.

So, no, the attackers definitly have an advantage, especially considering the sheer number of people in each invasion transport.

I would agree about other things, though. Planetary defense should be a massive bonus to justify the loss of a tile that could be used for making ships, researching, or increasing income.

And I can see the potential for the defense tactics. Vanilla defense would have the least effectiveness, but not cause lasting problems. A scorched earth policy, on the other hand, is going to be hell on the attackers as the ground they take will have no value, but the planet will have lost a lot of improvements. Setting up a guerilla warfare campaign would drastically reduce the effectiveness of defenses, but would add a whole bunch of negative penalties to the invaded planet if the attacker wins to production, population growth, morale, etc that would continue for so many turns or until the planet was retaken.
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Reply #3 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I have wondered the same thing, except I never got around to posting it. You should be able to build orbital fortifications around a planet. Like the MAC guns in Halo.
Reply #4 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I really like this idea. It wouldn't have to give a big bonus since we don't have control of air. It would be interesting to see what people would come up with.
Reply #5 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I like the mac guns idea too, but, (dare i say it?) the space stations in moo2 are a better realisation for defending planets. hell I might finally build an orbital fleet manager on one of my precious tiles if they came with a space station that aids the defense fleet. At the moment i usually make sure my planets have a couple of wimpy fighters to keep transports at bay.
Reply #6 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
You don't have space or air superiority... they're floating about uncontested in orbit



if i was a world leader with space flight my aircraft would be spacecraft thus your orbital ships wouldn't go uncontested

but then again that is me

Reply #7 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Air superiority is having more aircraft with superior fire power in your airspace than you can defend against, either from the air or the ground. So, how does a transport carring i.e. 3b invaders (civilians) with normaly no fire power, get a bonus.
I could take my pee shooter and blow it out of the sky, killing all on board before they get chance to pull out their pitch forks.
Reply #8 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Air superiority is having more aircraft with superior fire power in your airspace than you can defend against, either from the air or the ground


i think starstriker's point was more that you can't get a transport through unless the planet has no ships in orbit to defend it. still, the cost to create ships that can exit atmosphere and travel in hyperspace has to be far greater than the cost for a conventional jet fighter. ergo, defeating the ships in orbit doesn't necessarily mean you've achived air superiority. and orbital bombardment is only an invasion tactic in GC2. plus it seems like surface defenses should exist - gun turrets, SAM batteries, nukes. and as much as ships in orbit can bombard them from a safer distance before decent into the atmosphere, he pointed it out himself: planets are very big (and they're bound to miss many targets).

i agree with his points to an extent. however the sheer number of troops doesn't necessarily have to be greater than the number of troops on the planet (since there's no distinction in the game between troops and civilians). perhaps defense doesn't deserve the bonus, but niether does offense. yes, defenders have to defend the whole planet. but the attackers have to get out of the transport for starters, which takes time when there are billions of you in there. and once they do, big deal, they've managed to invade a square mile.

(dare i say it?)


it's okay... i actually liked the structure of the invasions in MoO3 (yes, 3) better. they were often battles of attrition that could stretch over the course of several turns. i mean, taking over a whole planet in a week does seem rather far fetched. they were horrible to look at, but at least they kinda made sense to me.

but a change on the scale of differentiating between troops and civilians (who can become milita), exactly how a battle is being fought, etc. -- these are changes for another game. i wouldn't even mind keeping the current bonus attackers get; i just wish there was more (useful) nuance in defending your planets, both against ships attacks and invasions.
Reply #9 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I, for once, would be much in favour of a siege like mechanic to assaulting a planet. Attackers and defenders get gradually worn down over time (the time involved depending on the soldiering and tactics used... better soldiers capture planets faster, or whittle down the invaders faster). The defender could still reinforce planets with transports and put fleets in orbit to stop more attackers from landing, and the attacker could do the same, but the planet would be incapacitated for as long as both sides had soldiers left.

Because, as stated, its a little crazy to be taking over a planet in a week, even if you DO have the ability to drop in on all the urban centers simultaneously...
Reply #10 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Imagine a transport with a thousand legions of troops. That's 1 billion people. If I were going to design a transport like that, I'd make sure it could seperate into tiny ships that could individually assualt - and hopefully - exterminate the entire existing population. Meaning thousands of individual pods swarming the entire planet and hey if the entire population is dead there's no possibility of gorrillas messing with your transplanted civilization...   

"Kill one person and your a murderer, kill 50000 and it's a national movement" Joseph Stalin
Reply #11 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Star Striker has a point. How are you gonna mobilize fast enough, when your enemy can land ANYWHERE?
Reply #12 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

Because, as stated, its a little crazy to be taking over a planet in a week, even if you DO have the ability to drop in on all the urban centers simultaneously...


Not really. I have several billion troops in orbit, ships capable of bombardment which you can't actually stop and the capability to screw with your tidal system or simply drive an asteroid into the surface. I can't see any planetary authority deciding to try to hold out for more than a few hours in those circumstances.
Reply #13 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Yah!!! Mass Drivers are sweet   I love dropping a spy on a farm to get the pop down to 6B and then follow up with 300M troops using mass driver attack. Then I drop a regular transport with 1000 troops and its a real cake walk ...   
Reply #14 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I think Invasion Defense Tactics are an awesome idea. Actually I think I'm going to chime that in to Stardock on your behalf in the Beta2 thread. Shouldn't be terribly hard to implement--just tack them on to the existing Planetary Defense techs.
Reply #15 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Why not have that good old shield the terrans made to ward off Drengin invasion? If I'm the All Knowing God of the Galaxy, why can't I replicate their feat?