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Takao21
Takao21
Join Date 10/2007
+2

[Suggestion] Diplomacy tied to Unrest

April 15, 2013 2:58:30 AM from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Personally I love the new system of handling unrest in cities and how it balances with expansion, but I think it would be a great idea to tie city unrest with your diplomatic relations. 

For example your faction unrest can be reduced by forging non aggression pacts with other members of your faction, and the unrest might be increased if you share a non aggression pact with a rival faction. 

Another scenario can be that you may get a reduction in faction unrest as a Kingdom for every war you start with the hated Empires, and an increase in unrest when you are at war with your fellow Kingdoms. 

I think that having some bonuses to unrest will encourage diplomatic ties with other nations. 

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Takao21
sharpxe
Join Date 06/2012
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Reply #1 April 15, 2013 3:32:35 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

unrest shoud be affected by loosing towns and units and building towns and units, by presence of hostile units inside town area of effect but not with abstract state of war with faction you dont ever share borders.

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Takao21
animageous
Join Date 03/2013
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Reply #2 April 15, 2013 3:33:52 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I think what you're referring to here is some sort of extended "war weariness" mechanic wherein good diplomatic ties lower it and poor relations (and/or war) increase it. It's a good idea, but the main issue is that at the moment the diplomacy is a bit too limited for this kind of implementation.

Here's a specific objection to this kind of mechanic at the moment: AI gets high power score. You have lower power score, on account of not being a military-focused empire. AI relations take huge negative dive because all the AI are elitist jerks and hate anyone "weaker" than them. Your unrest increases.

An economy-based empire or research-based empire should not be penalized with unrest hits purely because their faction power (which I think is entirely based on your military strength - correct me if I'm wrong) is lower than some AI players.

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Takao21
Takao21
Join Date 10/2007
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Reply #3 April 15, 2013 11:48:24 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

unrest shoud be affected by loosing towns and units and building towns and units, by presence of hostile units inside town area of effect but not with abstract state of war with faction you dont ever share borders.

I think of it as being kind of like public option, which would affect public unrest. You make peace with the a close by kingdom and your population breaths a little easier. Make war with an opposing faction and the public is filled with righteous fury. Making war has political advantages and disadvantages and I believe public unrest can be a great way to integrate political diplomacy with the rest of the game. 

 

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Takao21
Takao21
Join Date 10/2007
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Reply #4 April 15, 2013 12:08:23 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I think what you're referring to here is some sort of extended "war weariness" mechanic wherein good diplomatic ties lower it and poor relations (and/or war) increase it. It's a good idea, but the main issue is that at the moment the diplomacy is a bit too limited for this kind of implementation.

Here's a specific objection to this kind of mechanic at the moment: AI gets high power score. You have lower power score, on account of not being a military-focused empire. AI relations take huge negative dive because all the AI are elitist jerks and hate anyone "weaker" than them. Your unrest increases.

An economy-based empire or research-based empire should not be penalized with unrest hits purely because their faction power (which I think is entirely based on your military strength - correct me if I'm wrong) is lower than some AI players.

 

Yes I do believe that the diplomatic options are too limited right now but I think this may be a great start to add some depth to the current options  Also I am not proposing any game breaking unrest penalties. Something on a smaller scale (like maybe +3 faction unrest per every state of war, -3 faction unrest per non aggression pact, and -6 faction unrest per alliance).

These numbers would have to be balanced but I can understand the issues it would bring with the AI and the difference in faction power. If the total faction unrest is not game breaking (example say you get +3 unrest per state of war with 5 AI's at war with you. Total unrest would be +15, significant but not crippling) it could be workable. 

Also I do love the idea of extended war weariness where faction unrest increases over periods of extended war. This could be a great way to force the player or the AI to seek peace when their war machines start grinding down to a halt.

I also see a great potential for individual faction traits like the ability to negate war weariness or a decrease of unrest with every state of war for war loving factions. 

I would love to see if any of the diplomatic options can be modded, does anyone have any info on this? 

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Takao21
animageous
Join Date 03/2013
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Reply #5 April 15, 2013 6:24:15 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting Takao21,
reply 3
I think of it as being kind of like public option, which would affect public unrest. You make peace with the a close by kingdom and your population breaths a little easier. Make war with an opposing faction and the public is filled with righteous fury. Making war has political advantages and disadvantages and I believe public unrest can be a great way to integrate political diplomacy with the rest of the game. 

Don't get me wrong, I really love the idea, but I still think with the current diplomacy model it's a bit unstable. I am all for the adding of depth to this game, and this kind of "reaction unrest" is pretty cool.

I think my favorite idea which just occurred to me reading your post is the idea of "local unrest" stemming from founding your city too close to a dangerous wildlands, or having lethal monsters wandering within the town's borders. It would be a reflection of the locals' unhappiness with your rule that you allow violent monster hordes to invade their lands and steal/eat their children (at least, that's what I assume Bone Ogres do with their time).

Quoting Takao21,
reply 4
I would love to see if any of the diplomatic options can be modded, does anyone have any info on this? 

Private message parrottmath - as far as I can tell, he knows lots about modding and probably would be happy to answer your question.

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Takao21
parrottmath
Join Date 03/2008
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Reply #6 April 15, 2013 7:28:11 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Not sure if much of this can be modded at the moment. I haven't looked into modding the Diplomacy since it is AI heavy, I suspect a lot of this area is hardcoded. I just don't know the variables that can be manipulated. Maybe if frogboy can enlighten us on some of these diplomatic treaties we can introduce. Currently I do not see a section for just plain resource trading.

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Takao21
Galactic_Hunter
Join Date 04/2003
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Reply #7 April 15, 2013 8:01:21 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Just throw in by 2 bits that the increase to 3% unrest per extra city is a lot better balanced than the previous 2%. It might be even better at 4%, but I could not be sure without trying it.

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