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keithburgun
keithburgun
Join Date 12/2008
+1

Burned, but want to give Elemental another chance

Can you tell me why I should?

May 1, 2012 12:26:19 PM from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Forgive me if this has been addressed elsewhere, but I couldn't find anyone talking about this...

So, as we all know, Elemental was a monumental blunder of epic proportions.  I was super psyched about it for like, 5 years, preordered YEARS in advance, and so it was pretty soul-crushing to see how bad it was.

So now Stardock is working on "righting the wrongs" with Fallen Enchantress.  That's great.

But here's the thing.  Does Stardock really even get what was so bad about Elemental?  I mean, the problems were not the surface level stuff like the really spotty graphics, bugs, or even the imbalances.

The problems with elemental were fundamental design issues.  Elemental is a game, not a fantasy simulator, yet shit was crammed into it as though it were a D&D variant trying to simulate this fantasy world. 

Shit like... I can equip any item to like my little foot soldier guy?  What the hell?  And so you can design a soldier.  Then you can get a veteran version of him, and he can level up, and you can produce different quantities of him?  It's just blurring the meaning of this soldier in the first place.  Why is unit-designing even in this game?

The game is just WAY too complicated to the point where it could never be even reasonably balanced or have all of the elements make sense.

So my question is, what is Fallen Enchantress doing to limit this madness?  My fear is that they're actually going to go further in the opposite direction, and add even MORE shit (which is usually the case for an expansion, which FE kind of feels like it is even if it's standalone).

What elemental was missing was focus.  Can I expect to see some of this from FE?

(Also, am I able to participate in the beta, since I pre ordered Elemental?  I remember reading something about this)

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keithburgun
Heavenfall
Join Date 07/2008
+441
Reply #1 May 1, 2012 12:34:56 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

The design is greatly improved and they continue to work on it, in particular faction differentiation and city mechanics will be changed before release (compared to where FE is now, which is much different from where E:wom was at 1.4).

The unit design thing remains, and it has been expanded upon. If it is not your cup of tea, then it isn't your cup of tea. Others enjoy it.

If you pre-ordered the game, and it was registered with Stardock, you'll get FE for free and access to beta included. You can find a download link at https://store.stardock.com/myaccount/products

 

 

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keithburgun
Lantros
Join Date 09/2010
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Reply #2 May 1, 2012 12:38:17 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

(Also, am I able to participate in the beta, since I pre ordered Elemental?  I remember reading something about this)

Go here, login, download the beta and give it a try. Best way to find out what you want to know...

https://store.stardock.com/login.aspx?ReturnUrl=/myaccount/products

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keithburgun
keithburgun
Join Date 12/2008
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Reply #3 May 1, 2012 12:59:34 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Thanks guys.

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keithburgun
ChrisMagoun
Join Date 04/2009
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Reply #4 May 1, 2012 1:12:45 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I had a similar experience with E:WOM in that I was very excited by the prospect of Stardock paying homage to MOM, but was ultimately disappointed with E:WOM. Fast forward almost two years, and I had mostly forgotten about Elemental and its successor, Fallen Enchantress. A couple of days ago I decided to revisit the game and activate my beta copy of FE.

It is actually hard to describe how much better FE is compared to E:WOM. Everything from the city building, to the unit design, to the tactical combat makes more sense, is more balanced and most importantly, all fits together to make a fun game. That's the main thing -- where version 1.4 of E:WOM is playable, I would say that version .912 of FE is actually FUN.

As for your fear that they are adding MORE stuff and are thus making the game more complex and losing focus, I would say that yes, they are adding more stuff, but that the game is better for it. When done well, options and how all those options play together are what makes the classics of the fantasy 4x genre so cool. The problem with E:WOM wasn't that there were too many choices. It was that the choices were poorly implemented. This is not the case with FE.

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keithburgun
keithburgun
Join Date 12/2008
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Reply #5 May 1, 2012 1:40:19 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Glad to hear it, Chris!  I'm downloading it now and I hope that I agree with your assessment.

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keithburgun
Bellack
Join Date 02/2007
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Reply #6 May 1, 2012 2:03:35 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums

Actully the ability to customize your units are one of the biggest draws to the game. I loved the ability to do this in Gal Civ2. If they dropped this feature then I would be hard pressed to keep playing.

 Yes WOM was on of the worst games in recent memory to come out however it has more to do with the DEVs turning a def ear to the beta testers about many glaring issues then it was due to unit customizations.

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keithburgun
Tattyhat
Join Date 04/2012
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Reply #7 May 1, 2012 2:15:41 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I have only had it a day and I am completely hooked.  One of the best games I have ever played, and it's only a beta........madness.

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keithburgun
Lantros
Join Date 09/2010
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Reply #8 May 1, 2012 2:27:06 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

and it's only a beta........madness.

...and month away from release. Real madness.

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keithburgun
Tattyhat
Join Date 04/2012
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Reply #9 May 1, 2012 2:41:00 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting Lantros,
reply 8

and it's only a beta........madness.

...and month away from release. Real madness.

 

I didn't know that it had a release date as yet.  I do know that one of the reasons that the last one was fail, is that it was released before it was ready.

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keithburgun
Lantros
Join Date 09/2010
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Reply #10 May 1, 2012 2:53:36 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

It hasn´t a release date. They will release it, when they have the feeling the game is ready. Thats why i think its save to say that we are month away from release. Something i find really exciting.

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keithburgun
seanw3
Join Date 12/2007
+141
Reply #11 May 1, 2012 2:55:35 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

The release date is firmly set at whenever the hell it is ready. 

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keithburgun
Tattyhat
Join Date 04/2012
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Reply #12 May 1, 2012 3:18:31 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting seanw3,
reply 11
The release date is firmly set at whenever the hell it is ready. 

 

And that is just what we want, yes?  This game is to good to rush, it has all the makings of a classic.

It is very, very addictive. 

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keithburgun
Supreme Shogun
Join Date 11/2005
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Reply #13 May 1, 2012 4:09:07 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

It's got potential.  The ball is still in their court.  I'm fairly confident that when it is done it will be great not just good and I am basing that off of some of the faction love and differentiation, new spells, items, etc.  They're on the right path and game is getting better and better every update.  

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keithburgun
Replicators
Join Date 05/2006
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Reply #14 May 1, 2012 4:24:08 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums


The unit designer is probably one of the ONLY features in the game that sets it apart from a lot of other games.

Remove it, and you'll remove the identity to the game.

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keithburgun
Istari
Join Date 05/2001
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Reply #15 May 1, 2012 4:41:47 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting Lantros,
reply 8

and it's only a beta........madness.

...and month away from release. Real madness.

Balderdash.

It'll be 3 months before we even start to think about a release date.

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keithburgun
Lantros
Join Date 09/2010
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Reply #16 May 1, 2012 5:01:07 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting Istari,
reply 15
Balderdash.

It'll be 3 months before we even start to think about a release date.

 

Oh shit... now i realize my mistake. I meant monthSSSSS. Really sry. It was not my intension to start any rumor. English is not my first language and i still make stupid simple mistakes.  

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keithburgun
StevenAus22
Join Date 06/2010
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Reply #17 May 1, 2012 6:36:49 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Don't worry.  I understood what you meant.  And English is so complicated anyway, it's easy even for native speakers to make simple mistakes.

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keithburgun
UmbralAngel
Join Date 06/2010
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Reply #18 May 1, 2012 8:01:14 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Play Master of Orion 2, and then return and apologize.



Snarky comments aside... I think Elemental did have fundamental design issues, and I think that hiring on people like Derek has helped a huge amount. I still think that they are making mistakes... but all games have issues that never get resolved. So I think it will be at least a good game, if not a great one, based on both the progress so far and also Brad's ability to find problems in the game only 3-6 months after forum members point out the very same issue. 

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keithburgun
keithburgun
Join Date 12/2008
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Reply #19 May 4, 2012 1:10:48 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Okay, so, I just played it and I have to say, you guys were right.  It really is massively improved.  Honestly, it's the game I wanted 5 years ago when Elemental was announced.  Of course, my standards have kind of increased since then, but whatever.  It's fun, excited to play it more.

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keithburgun
Tattyhat
Join Date 04/2012
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Reply #20 May 4, 2012 5:12:27 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting keithburgun,
reply 19
Okay, so, I just played it and I have to say, you guys were right.  It really is massively improved.  Honestly, it's the game I wanted 5 years ago when Elemental was announced.  Of course, my standards have kind of increased since then, but whatever.  It's fun, excited to play it more.

 

Toooooooold you so.

This is one of those games that only comes around every once in a while, and is pure magic.  If Stardock keep on doing, what it is they are doing, they are going to do a lot more than redeem themselves.

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