MayallCommunion

Join Date 09/2011

+21

Whats with the Advent Loyalist tech?

So I finally got around to playing some more Advent Loyalist, and has anyone else noticed this as well, but the advent have to go down two separate tech trees to get two different damage augmenting techs.

It takes 6000 credits, 480 ore, and 640 crystal in Temples of Harmony to get a 1800 credit, 350 ore, 550 crystal upgrade that only give +5% increase to damage(Fury of the Unity) while in culture.

It takes 4500 credits, 360 ore, and 480 crystal in Temples of Hostility to get a 1400 credit, 250 ore, 400 crystal upgrade that gives 10% increase to damage, 5% increase to range, and 2% increase to shield mitigation.

The TEC loyalist only need to spend 3750 credits, 300 ore, and 400 crystal on their military labs and 2100 credit, 325 ore. and 550 crystal for an upgrade that give +30% damage while in their own territory.

The combined cost adds up to 13700 credits, 1440 ore, 2070 crystal for two upgrades that give 10% damage, +5% range, +2% shield mitigation, +10% increased damage while in your own culture.

The TEC get 6600 credits, 625 ore, 950 crystal worth for a 30% increase in damage while in their own culture. Im not going to say the advent don't have advantages as they can be more offensive with their tech. But the cost difference is atrocious. That is easily somewhere over 100% more cost effective for its damage. 7100 credits, 775 ore, 1120 crystal, that is the difference in gold. Please fix this I understand the TEC is supposed to be all about cost efficiency but this is just bad for the game.

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SageWon

GoaFan77

Join Date 10/2008

+629

The Fury of the unity probably should be buffed, as it only applies to culture. But ancient retribution is hands down one of the best techs in the game, since those bonuses do not have any conditions on them. That's basically 2 damage techs, one range tech, and one shield regeneration tech for all ships, and I'd take it over a friendly gravity well bonus any day.

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Quoting GoaFan77,

reply 1

Yeah I wasn't going to say the abilities are bad, saying something is 100% bad is just foolish. I do think however that Fury of the Unity needs to be moved to hostility the cost is just way to high for that tech when combined with Retribution. I just get bothered when seeing things like this, the TEC get these huge % damage increases and nice buffs with good costs, but the Advent get all these inefficiencies it just bothers me. So I felt the need to post about it.

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Looking over the thoughts here, I would only mention that, all things being equal, you are pricing these techs as standalone. The general benefit I am seeing is that, over time, I am generally heading for the experience gain bump at the pinnacle of the Hostility tech. Since doing so requires all tiers prior to be unlocked, the cost to advance to all prior tiers is effectively sunk cost. We are only paying for the marginal increase of researching the given tech (thus, 1800/350/550 for the +5% damage bump, which puts it greatly cost effective when compared to the cost of increasing each damage type individually -- in addition to increasing the point defense and psionic surge damages, which generally don't see increases from other techs (at least, I think that's true)).

Further, since wealth is not a finite resource in Sins, the only true cost is the moment-to-moment cost of what other things you could purchase at that time -- versus waiting until later in the game. I'm never too concerned with cost in the long run in Sins due to this, and only concerned with the short-term utility of immediate acquisition (a could of guardians and LR frigates, or this tech -- it really depends on where I am in my strategy of acquisition versus protection).

Granted, the TEC benefits from a better cost-benefit tree in terms of independent (meaning, no requirements to obtain the benefit once researched), but, overall, I'm not going to worry over that. Finally, in my opinion, the range increase is a fantastic benefit (very few abilities increase range, which gives you better Damage Potential due to earlier start times on your attack, and can help tactical maneuvering to keep out of the way (or initiate your own) of broadsides on your approach for an attack or defense.

Dav

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GoaFan77

Join Date 10/2008

+629

Quoting MayallCommunion,

reply 2

I do think however that Fury of the Unity needs to be moved to hostility the cost is just way to high for that tech when combined with Retribution. I just get bothered when seeing things like this, the TEC get these huge % damage increases and nice buffs with good costs, but the Advent get all these inefficiencies it just bothers me. So I felt the need to post about it.

Much of the Loyalists bonus comes from culture so I don't think its that bad to be in the civic tree. And again, the TEC bonus is only in their own planets, which is not a very good bonus for competitive play. Even culture bonuses are better than that IMO.

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Quoting GoaFan77,

reply 4

Quoting MayallCommunion, reply 2I do think however that Fury of the Unity needs to be moved to hostility the cost is just way to high for that tech when combined with Retribution. I just get bothered when seeing things like this, the TEC get these huge % damage increases and nice buffs with good costs, but the Advent get all these inefficiencies it just bothers me. So I felt the need to post about it.

Much of the Loyalists bonus comes from culture so I don't think its that bad to be in the civic tree. And again, the TEC bonus is only in their own planets, which is not a very good bonus for competitive play. Even culture bonuses are better than that IMO.

Its bad to go into the civic tree as far as you have to to get Fury of the Unity. While also going into the military tree. Because TEC can tech into the military tree for there damage boosts. Advent have to do both, thats one of my main points.

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The thing with fury of the unity, is that it is easy to have your culture anywhere. The deliverance engine is amazing for this. In that it can spread your culture to enemy planets immediately. meaning your ships can have the damage boost anywhere, provided you time the firing, travel time of shell and ships etc to work right. But it will last awhile. It can also hit friendly planets as well, which means you can form colonies deep inside of enemy culture without losing your new colony to culture.

As for the cost. It is because the advent are not a military focused race. They have one, but it is not their focus. Their racial focus is bringing the entire galaxy into their collective consciousness, so they gain a lot of culture boosting research.

Tec are designed purely to turtle up, or attack, depending which one of the two you play. So their military upgrades are much much much cheaper, not to mention their economy is a lot stronger too. But yes, they pay a lot less for military because it is their main focus, their culture spread sucks compared to advent and is pretty poor vs Vasari culture to.

Oh also, I want opinions if thats ok. http://kodasa.wordpress.com/ Im working on a novel, that is a rough draft of chapter 1.

That being said. It is better than the loyalist vasari culture. In that they have no culture, not when played the way they are meant to be played. They can literally survive without a single planet at all.

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Wtf? This thread is over a year old. Let it rest.

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