I think this is a pretty good idea. Not only does it give a place where the newbs can get to know the game, but it also gives a place were other experienced players can try out builds on people and not the silly AI. I wouldn't mind playing on the weaker team if you or someone else puts this together. I mean, I'm no pro but I consider my-self a good player.

Thanks for the replies people. Dariyen - that's my main concern: how can I manage to actually get newbie players rather than some sad individual who just wants to smash people. And then the answer came to me that I can't. I'll just have to label the game "Newb Training 2v3" and hope it goes well. That's how life goes.

Proximity - the public vent server sounds good, but I don't know much about how all this works. I just click Internet->Host Game and don't know much more. What I'll do is run a game and I'll post back how it goes. Pishtoff - if you fancy mucking in I'll PM you and let you know. Maybe this thread could be used for some of us to start organizing things.

And like you say, it also gives people of our level (not super-players, but reasonable ones) chances where we can try out different things without as much pressure and even work on our team-playing skills. I know it still takes me far too long to type out "head off down the lane on the right and we'll cut off their regulus and kill him."

In case anyone wants to co-ordinate, I play online as "TNNN" as my name change update STILL hasn't been swapped over in Impulse.

Funny, it just so happens that I've been running a public Demigod ventrilo server for a while now.

Here's the info:

Hostname: mox.guildvent.net

Port number: 5700

Yeah, mine's a 100 slot server and hass a bunch of game rooms already made. Just use mine.

The biggest problem is that new players don't consider themselves new players. I remember entering a game which said 'average players.' I figured that I was a fairly average player, so I entered that game. It was a 2 on 2 in cataract. I ended up pretty much carrying the entire game. Every other player there was obviously a newbie. Things like reinforcements, flag locks, and other things that should be basic knowledge to any 'average' player were foreign to them.

I suggest the first move we make is to make people know what the separation is from newbie and average.

i think its simple. you are average (or better) if and only if:

1) you know the most effective builds for your Demigod and are using a build that you know how to use

2) you know which items are good and which are crap and what a reasonably efficient order to by them in is

3) you know which citadel upgrades are good and what their relative priorities are at the various stages of the game

4) you are familiar with the maps (not too hard, there are only 8)

thats just the basic knowledge base. anybody who's got that stuff down is at least average. you might still suck as a player because your reaction time is poor or maybe you're stoned and missing things that should be obvious, but you at least know the basics so you're not gonna be just a worthless feeder. 

@TiduZ:

You are the kind of gamer I hate more than anything else, nobody is born a pro and noone born a newbie.

cause years ago you maybe didnt even know what an RTS or MMORPG was. and even you had a first time for everything in every game on this planet. sure it gets easyer when you get experience in some games and many games are similar, so you get to know some things or tactics from the start, but you cant exspect a 15 year old to have the same experience like somone who played strategie games over 20 years. and even you werent born a pro, cause there is always someone whos better than you!

but i guess its waste of time to talk to someone like you! cause your kind will never learn anything! and maybe but only maybe some people like your friend play for fun and not to be a pro, ever thought about that?

@all: you cant make a list of things that classify people when they are good or not. thats what i hated about rpg´s the most:

you have to have or you suck, you have to use, you have to skill or we wont take you with us in grp.

i think that everyone has to find there own playstyle and needs to find out how its most fun and to be fair and can loose without flaming others, not how hes the best.

and once you´ve found that out, you´re a good player.

sure everybody needs to know his character and his skills and need to somehow master them, but everybody makes mistakes, even the so called "pro" gamers.

most people seem to forget that this games are about fun and not about challenge in the first place.

coz i dont think you all earn your money with playing games. so think about that sometimes!

so to go back to the topic:

sounds like an nice idea, but like some mentioned before we need to coordinate those battles and the good gamers should help people during the game and after. talking about tactics, skill systems, which items are good and how to use them in the right way and so on.

greez Dariyen

(sry for mistakes again)

I have seen (and participated in) NEWB games where everoyone just sat in the waiting room and talked strats and the new players got to ask questions. It worked out okay.

Well I tried just hosting a "Newb Training" game in Custom. It was a lot of fun, though not really what I had in mind. There were connection problems in the lobby (never had that happen before! ) so we went to 2v2 just to get the game going. The map was Cataract. Abilities were a bit of a mix. One plenty good Rook, one not bad Sedna but definitely benefiting from her teammate's skill (I say 'her' because it was Sedna - no idea, really) and one TB who struggled a little and was my teammate. Unfortunately my team mate dropped part way through leaving me with a suicidal AI. At the end of the forty minute game everybody was level 19-20 except the AI TB who was level 13! I was Beast, btw.

I chatted a bit more with my teammate than I normally do. That was because I felt more comfortable offering suggestions / instructions to someone I don't know than I usually do. It's hard to convey tone with hurried typing, but I hope everything came across as friendly. My team mate bought Priests very early on which I suggested should have waited until later because of the XP it would give them. We also got a "TY - XP! " from the opposing side for it.  I hope no offense was taken. If someone is expecting abuse (and reading these forums it's clear there are some sad individuals who use the game as an excuse to be unpleasant), then it's not easy to make sure everything can't be taken that way. Tried to make comments helpful: "Cap unguarded flags - fastest way to level"

One unfortunate thing was that someone came into the lobby just as someone asked "So it's 2 experts vs. 3 newbs?" and then said: "no thanks!!!" and left while I was still typing my reply. And I don't blame them - that's absolutely not what this was about.

Oh, and we lost, btw! The other two took some glee in beating someone who'd had the temerity to call themselves better than newb! And don't blame them. I made some silly mistakes, mainly against the Rook which was a tougher than normal. Maybe just a lot of Armour.

So lessons learnt:

• I'm not as good as I thought and need to improve.
• We need to be really clear on the aims of what we're doing - maybe establish "Newb Training" as a bit more of a known concept as it's hard to explain in the title of a game.
• Sending instructions to other people is a good thing and not as offensive as I thought. People can always say "no" or give instructions back. I'm going to do it more in regular games.
• The game is more fun when you relax more and aren't worrying about whether you're better or worse than your opponents or if you'll win or lose.
• It would be useful to have a bit more of a chat post-game before everyone leaves.
• People LOVE to beat someone who thinks (or appears to think) that they're better than them.

Anyway, it was a very fun game. I was playing a non-Spit Beast which worked quite well, but I think I need to refine him a little. I'm thinking Bestial Wrath might actually give me a useful edge now that I have so much Mana floating around.

It would be good if you could select online games based on your achievements. That way n00bs can get games with other n00bs, and, as you get better, move up to the next level of game.

For any 'moderate' player its not much fun jumping into the middle of some pro match.

Maybe it should be called "New Players Counceling" or something Because if you just call the game "Newb Training", it looks the same as a "Newbs only" game, and people might not be expecting to be pelted with advice

Also it could be nice to make this something like a weekly event, maybe twice a week, once for EU and once for US times.

hmm but that would mean having a better ranking system 

you would also have some iddiots who make a new account just to get better stats