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romelus
Join Date 03/2006
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EASY way to make us fear the AI

March 31, 2006 6:48:07 PM from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
make possible planetary bombardment and blockade by ships

currently the only way AIs can hurt my planets is by invading with transports, which are easily destroyed. in fact one only needed enough fast ships to intercept transports, and his planets are safe from any damage.

1 reason the MOO series AI seemed much more menacing was because they could declare war early, and hurt you badly without invasions. they could attack you before you even finished colonizing, and enter your orbits with ships. every turn they bombard, and you start to lose improvements and population

with galciv2 i have not seen AIs declare war before researching planetary invasion, which is an expensive and time consuming tech. even after planetary invasion is researched, a vastly underpowered player could still have no fear, because only transports can hurt him, and transports are very easily killed.

if galciv2 allowed planetary bombardment, a war declaration would make me panic, instead of just a "so what" reaction
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Dewwar
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #1 March 31, 2006 7:37:14 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Transports aren't as easily killed in the beta patch. I've seen them with speed upwards of 8 and with escorts to boot. I can still intercept about 9/10 of them, but every time one gets through I take a major population hit.

-Dewar

PS: That doesn't mean that I don't think planetary bombardment would be cool
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phbbt107
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #2 March 31, 2006 7:44:25 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
eh, maybe. But you better make the planetary bombardment weapon/item/module/whatever very big and expensive. Being able to blow the !@#$ out of a planet without losing your ship OR and population seems very powerful to me.
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Dewwar
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #3 March 31, 2006 7:47:32 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Make it have to be equiped on an unarmed vessel and make it large and expensive. Make it so one alone isn't very effective, so you need a fleet of them. Then it'll be a real risk cause you've got to protect those flying piggybanks.

-Dewar
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Nasarog
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #4 March 31, 2006 7:49:07 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
planetary bombardment and destruction weapons please.... nothing says evil genocide like destroying whole planets...
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Happhazzard
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #5 March 31, 2006 8:05:19 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
As opposed to killing off the entire tax paying population through ground battles.... It would actually be a lot more humane because it would allow people to surrender and live, even if under a different ruler...
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Wade_Smith
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #6 March 31, 2006 8:39:41 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Make it have to be equiped on an unarmed vessel and make it large and expensive. Make it so one alone isn't very effective, so you need a fleet of them. Then it'll be a real risk cause you've got to protect those flying piggybanks.

-Dewar


Actually we should be able to bombard using any weapon on any ship...beams, missiles, cannons...with varrying degrees of dammage depending on totat ship attack.

--Scitech
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FarAway Galciv
Join Date 06/2003
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Reply #7 March 31, 2006 9:22:11 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
One thing that MoO had going for it that you don't have in GC is Missile Bases, which made Planetary Defense awful easy once you got past a certain point.

I don't think you necessarily need Planetary Bombardment to make it work, though--something as simple as a 50% reduction in income (not Production) and a 25% decrease in Morale would definitely create problems.

Of course, it would also make it all too easy to strangle an opponent once you established "space superiority".

I wonder how hard a time the AI would have anticipating and selecting what to do if the actual orbital bombardment abilities were granted? I also wonder if GC2 might be well-served by giving players the discretion to build a few minor "Orbital enhancements" (e.g., Orbital Defense Platforms) for each planet?

It'd be kind of cool and allow low-Quality planets a bit more value, but at the end of the day, I wonder if it'd just complexify gameplay without enhancing it?
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CommanderGizmo
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #8 March 31, 2006 9:51:48 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
What prevents you from using a huge hull to house both weapons and troops? Nothing like a planetary invasion force that can be lethal in space as well.
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Reply #9 March 31, 2006 11:19:17 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
because transports disappear when they've been used in a ground invasion... kinda dumb to build plasma cannons that vanish into thin air

moo2 had a good system. let me explain a little bit for those who are unfamiliar. light weapons like laser and mass driver do very little damage when bombarding. there are "bomb" type weapons that do good bombardment damage, but are useless in space combat. in that game, for bombardment, you usually ended up designing either dedicated bombers, or fighter bombers that can also fight, but not as well as full combat ships. it added a good dimension to overall fighting, especially as you tried to shoot down the bombers before they reached your planet to unload, while enemy fighters pummelled you along the way, extremely cool experience

if this system is implemented in galciv2, early game play would cease to be 100% expansion, or you risk having enemy ships blockading you and slowly strangling you to death. you need to balance expansion with at least some defense - something i'm sure we all agree would be more interesting.

and you might also start to panic a little when AIs declare war on you, for sure!
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Ryan Vincent
Join Date 09/2004
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Reply #10 March 31, 2006 11:19:48 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Lets think about it, One tile away from a planet is roughly 5 or so earth-masses away from the planet, Missiles cant go that far, Laser beams get dissapated in the atmosphere and mass drivers sure as hell cant make it that far.

That takes a one sector defensive radius for planets out of the question.

But anyways, For sanity's sake use your imagination, Just because during the planetary invasion screen you see a fairly average battlefield, Let your brain fill in the details, Imagine civilians who are good at playing missile command conscripted to staff Silo's, Imagine Drengin Shock Troops running the streets in tight, efficient packs, Use your imagination!
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AoEFanatic
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #11 March 31, 2006 11:23:51 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
supergeek i tried that once and it wasn't very effective you lose the ship once you invade and if its good enough to be "lethal" then its not worth it losing it.
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BladeVenom
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #12 March 31, 2006 11:38:56 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Lets think about it, One tile away from a planet is roughly 5 or so earth-masses away from the planet, Missiles cant go that far, Laser beams get dissapated in the atmosphere and mass drivers sure as hell cant make it that far.
You'd better think a litte harder. Once fired they retain their speed in space and don't slow down so range to the target doesn't matter.

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mitch278
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Reply #13 April 21, 2006 2:22:14 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums
 



Make it have to be equiped on an unarmed vessel and make it large and expensive. Make it so one alone isn't very effective, so you need a fleet of them. Then it'll be a real risk cause you've got to protect those flying piggybanks.

-Dewar

How bout just make it so any ship is free to attack the population and improvements of an undefended planet. It doesnt have to be complicated. Specialized modules for the task would be nice to have too, but having to build defenseless bombers leaves a lot of the same problems as only having troop transports to attack planets with. It will just be another kind of defenseless ship to pick off before it can cause any harm (at least it would be in the AI's hands).


orbital attacks shouldnt be difficult to implement at all. Any ship with an attack rating should be able to attack an undefended planet. The dammage would just be proportional to the attack rating of the ship/fleet attacking. Probably insignificant for weak attackers. Simple and effective. The game really feels incomplete without it.


A high-end module that can be used to completely remove a planet might be worth considering too, for those of us too lazy for invasions an too stubborn to settle for surrender. But extra modules and techs really arent necessary. Ships just need to fire at planets when they're done firing at defenders. why cant they just fire at the planets?!

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Popup Target
Join Date 03/2003
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Reply #14 April 21, 2006 2:49:59 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Sorry, I'm not particularly interested in having space bombardment in GC2. Given the changes in 1.1, the ability to kill population without loosing anything would be far too overpowering. Seriously, for the first time in GC2, I'm launching colony ships that aren't full because population growth is that much slower DESPITE having taken populaton growth bonuses (and yes, growth bonuses seem to work in 1.1).
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Marcathonas
Join Date 01/2006
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Reply #15 April 21, 2006 3:26:17 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
There will be no space bombardment ever, frogboy has said so. Terror Stars will be back, but he didn't want that, and gave in to shut the "THIS GAME NEEDS ORBITAL BOMBARDMENT!!!!!!!111!eleven!" threads up. Blockading sounds good, and would be a cool idea for 1.2 or an expansion.
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