I would like to add that Microsoft and windows 11 aren't even the worst player in the game. If you look at news on where peoples data is being extracted you would see Facebook is way worse. Even Russia has been in on the action of using that platform to control what people see by accessing users data. And this really is the exact same tactic as corporations and politicians, they are all buying your data

I do miss the timeframe of Windows 7 more then the actual OS. It was a simpler time and the transactions felt more respectful as you were able to just pay an upfront cost rather then pay with the hidden costs of data extraction that you see now a days. But, they have been a long time coming and are pretty impossible to escape completely. It simply is just a bad time for privacy.

You CAN function in the modern world without windows PC. Todays world can also use a Mac AND there is a huge chunk of people  that can and do function on a smart phone alone perfectly well.

What we have in todays world is either windows os, ios, Apple or a Chrome book. All these players are part of the scope of how people can function in the modern world. People can skip windows 11 for one of the other options but aren't the alternatives listed even worse?

I would even argue that the pc has been taking a huge hit in sales because people actually want flashy phones rather then high end pcs on average.

So Windows 11 is kind of a wanna be phone. And I am not a fan of that. BUT, it also still allows me to have control of my PC so I can shut all of that off and change my windows 11 back into a typical windows OS.

I will give you facebook though. I do not use it myself, but there is always a lot of peer pressure to join it.

The 'spying' that MS was doing with prior versions, even Win 7, was almost entirely of the 'telemetry' variety, easily shut down - information that was useful to Windows developers but couldn't really be monetized in the Facebook sense.  Win 11 takes things to a different level & purpose.

Correct, but only with Windows 7 and below. Windows 8 was the birthing point whom stole the idea from Apple and Google. Of course every Windows release will take things to a new level. In windows 11 the stock start menu is part of Windows advertising mechanism. Definitely make sure you install start 11, only 6 dollars to remove a big piece of adware. 

If you do the things stated on this thread, Windows 11 should be just fine to use.

Every version of Windows, ranked from worst to best | PC Gamer 

Curriously....found these rankings for the MS OS....

Ah.....but the lemmings left behind were never pushed over the cliff by the photographer...

I remember 'working' in a Computer shop [I knew the guys who ran it] and watched in real time while Win ME died.  It choked itself to death making restore points continuously until the HD filled and the system locked solid.

It was a dog.

I remember the 'unbreakable' Win 2000 that I crashed at least twice a day whilst rewriting shells for it.

I might have played with Vista more...if it only had a driver accessible for my modem.  A permanently offline OS is pretty bloody useless afterall....  Mostly Vista was just an uncooked 7  without drivers...

2 'error messages I always liked'...

"You must reinstall Windows"

and...

"Keyboard not found.  Press F1 to continue".

I understand that this is a hot topic and I am always up for a good debate. But, we need to keep talks about the individual out of this as we discuss the topic, "about windows 11"

There's the rub....11 is probably little different to 10 in that regard.  It's Daiwa's thread afterall, not mine.

For me, I will always be leery of someone giving me something that's too good to be true.  For decades I have been paying to upgrade my OS....then later via Technet....but along comes '10' and it's "free".

It isn't free....it's a mechanism to evolve into an entirely new commercial model for MS, one that I do not agree with.

99% of computer users are ignorant of the machinations of controlling there privacy....other than adding an AV proggy maybe.

And yet anything invasive is opt-out only.

No, I don't 'know' that 11 is worse than 10..... but I do know that 10 was worse than 7 - out-of-the-box...

True enough. Windows 11 is definitely a little more invasive when it comes to advertising.

The start menu was really getting on my nerves until I found a way to replace it. For example, the whole recommendations section is really just an advertisement section AND if you turn off the recommendations then half the start menu remains empty asking you to re enable recommendations. It is a crafty trick to make you believe that the start menu works better with recommendations on and thus be advertised to.

I did get under the hood to make windows 11 run the way I want it to so the advertising is no longer in my face and it runs for me very well. But, I will concur with you that the majority of people will miss these mechanisms and be taken advantage of as is always the case in the world of advertising.

Windows 7 was also cracked day one of its release so the way to make money is also changing.

I'm not qualified or knowledgeable enough to specify or list all of the things that make 11 more silently invasive than 10.  I can only relay the concerns of our tech support professional whose livelihood depends on understanding the inner workings of the beast.  He gives thanks each morning for Microsoft's hubris and stupidity; they keep him incredibly busy.  He supports a number of medical practices which is why HIPAA compliance is a concern to him.  And he maintains that the opening up of backdoor access to multiple third parties is orders of magnitude greater in 11 than 10.

As an aside, he also tells us that third party software vendors are in some cases taking advantage of this 'progress' by refusing to provide backward compatible Win 11 drivers for a variety of applications, rendering software that is fully functional in Win 10 useless in Win 11 (without expensive upgrades, of course).  And, as I mentioned in the initial post, third party software vendors already have the ability and willingness to reach into your computer and steal paid-for software (Adobe) unannounced.

I have noticed that there are two different info sections as to what an app has access to in regards to App permissions. One for Windows 10 and one for windows 11. Mostly though with the apps I am looking at have permissions that are 100 percent identical, but since there are two different sections there must be certain third party apps that I am not looking at that are in fact more invasive. Either that or there is certain apps your IT guy really likes in regards to privacy that has yet to make its way on to Windows 11 and he is talking about the amount of apps. More apps = stronger possibility one of the competitors will be better suited for privacy. I can only speculate though.

Also note about 80 percent of the data skimming can be turned off in the security and privacy section in settings with a few more privacy settings that are usually able to be switched to off in the app itself. For example, neflix has access to your call history and texts on default, what the heck!! Just make sure you are looking at app permissions to see what you are getting yourself into. I am sure most people will over look this.

I do agree with Dave on this one. There are soo many third party vendors out there and many different views in regards to how to deal with this issue.

I think it is really sleazy the way Adobe went about their business. What they did in fact did take advantage of being allowed to go into your system files by turning off your access to this program just as your IT guy stated. Really bad business on that side. I will probably steer clear of them myself after hearing that.

I do like how stardock handles this. By trying to make better products that earn an upgrade. Unfortunately not everyone is going to do this, and therefore third party venders are going to be the main thing to watchout for as we enter the Windows 11 era of computing.

oh no not again... I hope that was your less used pc. I am guessing it is by the never updated part

WEI, FWIW .....7.9