Zrevnur

Join Date 12/2019

Important Info about the Future of Elemental/FELH from Stardock

Draginol [developer] 16 hours ago

Hi guys!

Thanks for all the kind words. We would love to do a full sequel to this game. There are, however, a few obstacles which I'll outline below:

First, the engine this game was built on is fundamentally flawed. The shorter version is this: The game was designed for 32-bit PCs and to get around that limitation, the game uses an early form of asset streaming. The problem: It uses Windows memory management rather than its own which, unknown to us at the time, created a memory fragmentation problem which causes the game to randomly crash. This problem was greatly reduced in Fallen Enchantress: Legendary Heroes but a sequel would need to be rewritten.

Second, internal competition. The designer of Fallen Enchantress is better known as Kael who did the Fall From Heaven mod for Civilization. He's in charge of the Stardock's games teams and I've promised him he can make an all new fantasy strategy game right after he finished GalCiv IV (which is in development).

Cheers!

Source: https://steamcommunity.com/app/228260/discussions/0/2845669419702865425/#c2999925875999086966

(About the engine memory fragmentation problem: Unless this is some external unaccessible engine - its hard to understand why the memory allocation cant simply be replaced? In proper languages such as C/C++ this should be easy-peasy for a competent knowledgeable programmer.)

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Thank you for the information!

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2394

With regards to memory fragmentation you would need to have the game handle is own memory management rather than using New/Delete or Malloc/free.

The engine used for Elemental and Fallen Enchantress do a ton of New/Deletes which, over time, resulted in a ton of memory fragmentation. This was to get around the 32bit memory limit of the day.

Since that time, we co-founded a company called Oxide which developed the Nitrous engine which we now use which handles all the memory management.

Eventually, when we return to Elemental, it'll be a new game that uses that engine.

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Quoting Frogboy,

reply 2

With regards to memory fragmentation you would need to have the game handle is own memory management rather than using New/Delete or Malloc/free.

The engine used for Elemental and Fallen Enchantress do a ton of New/Deletes which, over time, resulted in a ton of memory fragmentation. This was to get around the 32bit memory limit of the day.

In my experience "fixing" memory (address space) fragmentation for systems with only one "uncontrolled sequential input" (the player in front of the computer for FELH) is usually doable with low or moderate effort: Replace new/malloc/etc with analysis functions. Have a human look at the results. Easiest to do outcome would then be to change the code in particular spots. Otherwise overwrite the allocation functions partially (branch off special cases, otherwise use the original malloc etc) or completely (make own customized heap management). Having a high number of calls (not sure what you mean with 'a ton') can make it harder if run time suffers due to that but the analysis would include number of calls. (I used to work for a company that needed to do such things. On embedded systems its either more cost for hardware or more software effort to squeeze things in. Hardware almost always won that and software had to do the "squeezing". But with 64bit CPU supported address space tech this is mostly a thing of the past now.)

Switching to 64bit pointers may be much easier though - if the project isnt somehow bound to a 32bit only compiler.

Quoting Frogboy,

reply 2

Since that time, we co-founded a company called Oxide which developed the Nitrous engine which we now use which handles all the memory management.

Eventually, when we return to Elemental, it'll be a new game that uses that engine.

Ok. Unfortunately that wont help FELH anymore then...

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NelsMonsterX2

Join Date 12/2009

+18

I'm excited to hear that a Legendary Heroes follow up WILL happen someday! FE:LH was definitely the best version of fantasy 4x Stardock produced and I'd love to get a more modern update. I'm really curious about the unnamed fantasy strategy game too. Will it be a part of the Elemental universe or a brand new IP? Also didn't expect to see GalCiv4 so soon! 2021 is already looking up. 😁

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2394

Quoting Zrevnur,

reply 3

Ok. Unfortunately that wont help FELH anymore then...

I think most people care about the general LH design more than what engine it uses.

It would be easier to port LH to a new engine than it would be to retrofit the old LH engine.

The one thing that LH (and Sorcerer King) really did particularly well that our new engine lacks are the tooltips. We call them "Chicks" (named after game reviewer Tom Chick who is adamant about UI communicating information to the player -- long before this sort of thing was considered the norm). The SK/LH chicks are just so nicely done under the covers.

However, the lead programmer of the chicks system is back and she's working on GalCiv stuff now but that means our newer engines will start to get this tech back.

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Quoting Frogboy,

reply 5

I think most people care about the general LH design more than what engine it uses.

I think you're correct. Not that I can claim to speak for anyone else, obviously, but I suspect most players would concur that the game's design (and atmosphere) are what make it so brilliant.

Quoting Frogboy,

reply 5

However, the lead programmer of the chicks system is back and she's working on GalCiv stuff now but that means our newer engines will start to get this tech back.

Sweet!

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