Tone it down on the Nightmare AI - Tourny

Because I'm sure Dawn of War was the first game to ever do that...

It is meant to be stupidly hard though, I mean, if the hardest difficulty isn't a significant challenge for a while, then you probably didn't make it hard enough.

If you want an easier game, play on Hard instead of Nightmare. Why down skew them just so you can claim to beat Nightmare?

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I had to edit this post, because before the edit I said "I assume/hope you were Regulus." FYI, I'm drunk. A friend and I have been making a drinking game out of Dead Space. We drink after every three kills/one death lol. FYI, it's nucking futs.

I'm with you here. Nightmare AI is still pathetic to beat, but with pathetic AI teammates with far inferior stats it can be a bitch.

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he was queen.

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Life, I missed you!!! We'll play again soon, k?

Yeah, I figured that out three seconds after my initial post asking the question lol.

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Rook Ai on your team is default loss ^^

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Many people beat the Tournament on Nightmare. Nothing really has to be changed here.

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There is a drastic difference between Hard and Nightmare, too much really. And that game was over for your before it begun because the Rook AI is kinda like Timmeh out of South Park, watch him try and run, it's pathetic.

Hard tournament is Normal AI on your side with Hard on the other side, this is doable though cause the AI is still dumb. When you go Nightmare you have Normal on your team with Nightmare on theirs there is no way you can stop the Nightmare from farming your AIs to hell and back. The only way you can win is to exploit how bad the AI is as much as you possibly can (easier if the opposition has Rook).

Trouble is I tried a Skirmish with Hard on my side and Nightmare on the other 5v5 and it was easy to win so really to fix the Tournament being a challenge without being out of hand how much the enemy is fed, they really need to work on the AI.

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Quoting Haree78,

reply 7

There is a drastic difference between Hard and Nightmare, too much really. And that game was over for your before it begun because the Rook AI is kinda like Timmeh out of South Park, watch him try and run, it's pathetic.

Hard tournament is Normal AI on your side with Hard on the other side, this is doable though cause the AI is still dumb. When you go Nightmare you have Normal on your team with Nightmare on theirs there is no way you can stop the Nightmare from farming your AIs to hell and back. The only way you can win is to exploit how bad the AI is as much as you possibly can (easier if the opposition has Rook).

Trouble is I tried a Skirmish with Hard on my side and Nightmare on the other 5v5 and it was easy to win so really to fix the Tournament being a challenge without being out of hand how much the enemy is fed, they really need to work on the AI.

TIMMEH! LIBBA LOW LIBBA LOW URHH!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4xmGqRxH3A

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I Beat nightmare and it was easy at least i thought so!! And i won every round i played. Even with the rook on my team

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When the gf is home, I'm forced to hook up our POS router, and am unable to play any sort of online game. Thus I resort to playing single player DG. I'm currently working on winning all the tournys on nightmare mode, and while it's frustrating and rather dumb at times, it keeps me occupied. However, while I can deal with the Easy Difficulty AI that is put on your team when you're facing the Nightmare AI, it's sometimes just ridiculous.

So, the term 'Nightmare' seems justified.

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Quoting tpindris,

reply 9

I Beat nightmare and it was easy at least i thought so!! And i won every round i played. Even with the rook on my team

It is only easy if you are an experienced player. I am a casual gamer and play Demigod not every day. When I play then only offline and usually only one to three rounds a day. For me the nightmare AI is challenging. Actually I would say I can win about 50% of the games against the nightmare AI. When I play tournaments in most cases I win them or at least become second or third.

The problem is that it is extremely important to have a good start against the AI and you need to win the game as fast as possible. If you do not use bugs or exploits you have otherwise hardly any chance. The enemy AI gets to high levels much quicker than your allies. So it starts to kill them like mad after a certain point. After that point you have no chance at all. The AI start buying artefacts in the artefact shop and you are simply lost as the often sucidal AI allies continue to die and the AI will even buy better artefacts. You quickly get into a vicious circle and the game is lost. On the other hand it is possible and I have managed to dominate also the nightmare AI and get nearly all awards within the game. In most cases the problem is that your allies are often not only useless but contrarely a burdon. I have made a screen shot of the hardest game I have won so far:

In games like this the allies are really a nightmare.

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Quoting Charvel1,

reply 10

So, the term 'Nightmare' seems justified.

No, it's not justified.

It would be different if levels/items didn't control how the game went. By level 12 if you haven't won / are seriously winning, the entire other team of DGs have artifacts and will be level 20 before the rest of your team is even 10. I just played a Nightmare tourny as Reg, and was doing pretty well..soon as I know it, my rook AI has died 14 times, the enemy team (ub, sedna, erebus, qot) all have an artifact or two, and it's not impossible for me to win. IMPOSSIBLE...that should not be how games are run. Before I quit that game, the opposing team's UB was 31 and 4, and my team had collected almost 60 deaths.

I've won two tournys, one as UB and one as Queen. Although, those are my two best DGs, and both DGs are very easy to 'sneak' around and either spit harrass, or seige. The only way I can see it possible to win with every DG is to A) be absolutely fucking stellar and make no wrong moves; B ) Your teammate DGs actually do something right for a few minutes, C) you do so much other stuff during the match that you get a lot of favor points. The only reason I swept the tourny as queen was because the other DGs ignored me long enough for me to do some serious seige damage throughout the map..if they would have found me I would have been dead within a few seconds.

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Sometimes in Demigod, and indeed gaming in general, you just have to accept that The Computer is a Cheating Bastard.

But for an actual hint;
Lock the Artifact Shop. It works wonders.(Unless it's Exile, in which case you're buggered in that regard.)

+1

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Quoting Paperkat,

reply 12

No, it's not justified.

It would be different if levels/items didn't control how the game went. By level 12 if you haven't won / are seriously winning, the entire other team of DGs have artifacts and will be level 20 before the rest of your team is even 10. I just played a Nightmare tourny as Reg, and was doing pretty well..soon as I know it, my rook AI has died 14 times, the enemy team (ub, sedna, erebus, qot) all have an artifact or two, and it's not impossible for me to win. IMPOSSIBLE...that should not be how games are run. Before I quit that game, the opposing team's UB was 31 and 4, and my team had collected almost 60 deaths.

I've won two tournys, one as UB and one as Queen. Although, those are my two best DGs, and both DGs are very easy to 'sneak' around and either spit harrass, or seige. The only way I can see it possible to win with every DG is to A) be absolutely fucking stellar and make no wrong moves; B ) Your teammate DGs actually do something right for a few minutes, C) you do so much other stuff during the match that you get a lot of favor points. The only reason I swept the tourny as queen was because the other DGs ignored me long enough for me to do some serious seige damage throughout the map..if they would have found me I would have been dead within a few seconds.

So it seems playing a Nightmare tournament is a nightmare. Isn't it?

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I agree with you that all game modes need to be playable and winnable. The hardest difficulty should indeed be hard, but not frustratingly impossible.

I have a thread to this effect here: http://forums.impulsedriven.com/361130

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I haven't been having a problem playing the tournament on nightmare mode. At least, not yet. My level goes up faster than the nightmare AIs on the other team. My AI teammates fall behind, but it's okay because I get fed more.

Take advantage of the lone AIs. The enemy AI doesn't make a big effort to group up. Use that to your advantage.

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Quoting tanelorn2,

reply 15

I agree with you that all game modes need to be playable and winnable. The hardest difficulty should indeed be hard, but not frustratingly impossible.

I have a thread to this effect here: http://forums.impulsedriven.com/361130

Yes, it should be winnable. But the hardest difficulty should only be winnable by the "best" players.

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Well I just tried Nightmare Tournament. Tbh, it's because of this topic - I wanted to check is AI really so good at Nightmare.

So that's my 1st Nightmare game (Conquest at Zikurat):

Well... Nightmare AI was easy here. The thing you just need to have is "houndrets" of TP scrolls. Dead AI don't exp and don't make cash, so just kill AI all the time and protect your towers and allies (and that's really easy playing as a vamp - bat swarm + tp scrolls + AOE stun ). We played like 3 vs 4, because almost always at least 1 enemy AI was death (mainly rook ).
Yeah, rook AI really sux. It's SO EASY to kill him. On the other hand, beast was just amazing ! Good I have bat swarm, because many times I would be dead without that skill.

So imo, good start is all you need to win against Nightmare AI. If you sleep at start (don't kill few AI's in 1st 2-3 minutes), you are screwed.

BTW: It was fun, especially late game, when I was just teleporting from one side portal to another to guard (or lock) it.

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Minion Erebus is not really that much a representative on how hard it is. Try the same thing with Regulus or UB.

In the end it boils down to favor points. It matters little who wins, just make sure you gather as mch favor points as you can. I have been in many a game where I won on favor points while losing, or if I was not the overall favor point winner I still managed to keep the AI from gaining too much points on me. At some point you should just focus on your favor points and not dying rather than trying to turn the game around.

That is probably not how the game was intended to be played but what the hey, it works.

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Shurdus - sure some chars are easier and some aren't to play against AI.

Reguluses problem is... he dies a lot. Reg don't have any speed skill, dont have escape skill, so its harder to fight against cheating AI (with much better items). But still it's possible to win, if you play game right.

The question here was: is Nightmare AI beatable ? For me, clearly, answer is YES IT IS ! Maybe AI is cheating, but AI don't think.

UB and Erebus were just WOW in this game. Rook was good too, but only late game, when he got 1700 Hammer Slam. He never misses HS, even if you run 3 meters away (is that a bug? looks like, but maybe it's better this way).

BTW: I never play minion Erebus Don't like to control minions (and this game is about fun, so I don't play things I don't enjoy). So during earlier Nightmare game, I was classical Erebus.

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Kudo's for beating the AI straight then. Not controlling minions... It is so easy once you know what to do, plus you severely handicap yourself by not using them. But whatever floats your boat is cool I uess, I would just ask you to reconsider your opinion about minions because they can be very worth the little extra effort.

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gg Stardock / GPG. I hadn't died once until I started TRYING to get somewhere near their citadel to kill structures by myself. I was 8 and 1 and for the most part even on levels with the CPU in the beginning, and then they all had 2-3 artifacts. 89 combined team deaths, really? That's basically someone on my team dying twice every minute for the entire match.

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Quoting Der_Donnervogel,

reply 11

Quoting tpindris,
reply 9
I Beat nightmare and it was easy at least i thought so!! And i won every round i played. Even with the rook on my team
It is only easy if you are an experienced player. I am a casual gamer and play Demigod not every day. When I play then only offline and usually only one to three rounds a day. For me the nightmare AI is challenging. Actually I would say I can win about 50% of the games against the nightmare AI. When I play tournaments in most cases I win them or at least become second or third.

The problem is that it is extremely important to have a good start against the AI and you need to win the game as fast as possible. If you do not use bugs or exploits you have otherwise hardly any chance. The enemy AI gets to high levels much quicker than your allies. So it starts to kill them like mad after a certain point. After that point you have no chance at all. The AI start buying artefacts in the artefact shop and you are simply lost as the often sucidal AI allies continue to die and the AI will even buy better artefacts. You quickly get into a vicious circle and the game is lost. On the other hand it is possible and I have managed to dominate also the nightmare AI and get nearly all awards within the game. In most cases the problem is that your allies are often not only useless but contrarely a burdon. I have made a screen shot of the hardest game I have won so far:

Reduced 57%

Original 1037 x 568

In games like this the allies are really a nightmare.

how does somone have 10 favor points!!!?

u get 40/75 depending on if u won/lost, can't get less than 40

oops, didnt know that pics don't copy well

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they added the 40 favor points in a pach, before that you only got 10 when you lose

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I'm really surprised how easly you can beat AI playing as a beast. It's definatelly the easiest char to play against nightmare AI !
You just need few kills at the beggining to buy basic gear and then... it's over for AI
At level 20 with Ashkaroth I was killing AI, camping near their crystal ! My beast had almost 11k hp (without 50% hp scroll) and with scroll she was just unbeatable with 16.5k hp !! Great fun to play so powerfull char. Late game (after I bought ring) I could easly tank and kill 2 (few times even 3) nightmare AIs same time.

BTW: I was very selfish this game - I bought just towers1/exp1/gold1 at the beggining and later angels/catas/dmg1 from citadel upgrades. All other cash I spend on uber items for myself (my 1st big saving was Ashkaroth, 2nd ring). That's why I didn't get +15 favors for Citadel Upgrades - Erebus took that reward along with assists.

So, if you want to have fun with nightmare AI - take beast as your char

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