Nerf the damn marza

Agent of Kharma

Join Date 02/2008

+31

Nerf the damn marza

Finally had a marza missle barrage me. Strangely enough, in a couple hundred games played (online), I've never had it happen. And since I don't play TEC, I've never used it before.

I was advent, playing against a TEC. He attacked me at one of my planets (all lrm, basically). I had a larger number of illums than he had lrm, and pushed him back - he took pretty big losses from my recollection. I then pressed ahead and attacked him. In waltzes his marza with some lrm. I still outnumbered him (with superior ships, no less) but all of a sudden my entire fleet went "poof" (30-something ships, from recollection).

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that the ability to press a single button on a capship with one finger, while picking your nose with the other, and be able to evaporate a superior fleet... should be considered just a *LITTLE* bit OP. Just a little. Someone will say "but you can disable it or avoid it!" Boy, what a false choice! So all he has to do is pick his nose while pressing a button, and all the burden to either "disable" or "avoid" is on me? Now how is that anything close to "balanced?"

Boy, is that shit ever broken. They ought to nerf the hell out of that crap, and nerf it good. In fact it should have been nerfed ages ago. A superweapon, which takes a ridiculous amount of credits to build, all said and done, won't even do that to a fleet.

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*just lost another game because of marza barrage* If encouraging them is making a cap OP,then remove those at all.....how many times have you seen players that DO use capships but they all are marza?(: I've seen enouph ,and I am one of them have to say.

NERF THE DAMN MARZA!

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Proletari, your post
a] doesn't make much sense
b] doesn't help our case at all.
Whoever you are or however smart your reasoning may be, if you write an illegible post using big fat letters...
... you just sound like a crybaby noob. And it is not crybaby noobs that are discussing balance right now.
With all due respect to crybaby noobs.

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Quoting wnmnkh,

reply 24

LISTEN.

FIRST OF ALL, MARZA IS NOT SPEEDY DEATHSTAR. IT IS A GLASS CANNON.

SECOND, IT IS OTHER CAPITAL SHIPS SUCK HARD, NOT MARZA OVERPOWERED. NERFING MARZA ONLY MAKES THE GENERAL VALUE OF CAPITAL SHIPS DECREASED, FURTHER DISCURAGING PEOPLE TO BUILD CAPS.

*exhausted.

Makes other ships on par with the current Marza and players would scream the game is unplayable. Whole fleets would disapear in seconds and the winner would just spend the rest of the playtime to mop up. That would hardly be a good gameplay. Capships need a boost in usefulness, sure, but make them fleet killers isn't going to make the game more fun.

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Quoting transitive,

reply 25

incremental adjustment is how game balancing is done. no matter how well intentioned your idea is, it WILL have consequences that you don't foresee. the smaller change is inherently the better change because it has fewer unforeseen consequences.

Disagreed. Returning Armada was screwed up the way it was and no matter what ship limit would be set in there, it was still imbalanced cause it gave you free ships every few minutes from every phase stabilizer.
Even if the ships were changed to appear in half the numbers, or quarter, it would still be imba for the sheer mechanic that was screwed. Or it could have been nerfed to give one LF or Assailant every 15 minutes and then it would be just sh*t.

And so RA had its ass reshaped almost completely. Now it is 'good' and not game breaking.
Mines were remade almost completely in the process of beta testing.

The same thing has to be done with MB.

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I have to say after all of this...if you cant compete against the marza then play TEC and get one of your own. Either that or learn how to counter. While it may be the strongest cap ship, other races have non-cap ship advantages. I have yet to see an imbalance. TEC is probably the best noob race choice for the marza and ease of economics.....its not the be all and end all.

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...and this is what happens when people reply only to the original post and don't read all 11 pages. which is a good signal that this discussion is basically over.

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There is nothing much to discuss over the fact that marza needs a change.The target of this topic was to pay dev's closest attention to the matter and give them some ideas.........but there is always a bored dude who trys to look smarter ,writes crap and looks like a douche.

yes,I am a crybaby noob

Nerf the damn marza!

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I wanted to quote the posts that would mix this guy with the dirt, but I'd end up quoting the whole thread, so..

.. read the previous posts towarf, and L2comprehend. Either that or just don't speak.

Prolet, if you really have to cry your ass out, do it with a smaller font at least.

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Nerf the damn marza!

YES.Do it.

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Internet should be allowed above 3 years of age.

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People may grow older, but unfortunately that doesn't necessitate a growth in maturity.

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[quote]FIRST OF ALL, MARZA IS NOT SPEEDY DEATHSTAR. IT IS A GLASS CANNON.[/quote]The Marza is JUST AS tough as 4 out of 5 other capital ships. Why does it get to be called a glass cannon, but the other ships can't?

Does it have something to do with the damage potential being SO FAR above the ship's own health that it takes on the role of a fragile DPS class? It must be a pretty sweet ship then, to have the same toughness yet a damage potential so far above any other cap.

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make cleansing brilliance shoot multiple beams, and see how they like that. well, its an ultimate ability, riiight?

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yes,I am a crybaby noob

Nerf the damn marza!

Yeah, Astax called me a "whiny-thread whiner" or something to that effect. Whatever, LOL.

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Darvin,it is called 'mental age',most people are stuck at age of 13-14.The smartass forum warriors are usually 16-17.

YOU KNOW WHAT

I like big font

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what if Sova's Rapid Manufacturing....actually did anything at all. hehe, bad example.

LOL

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Weather you learn it contructively or kicking and screaming the whole way makes ZERO difference to me.

LOL , I'm sorry been ghosting this thread for a while and some of this stuff is better than TV comedy, just down right funny.

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It seems interesting to me, how towards the end of this forum, the less logic arguments take over, and the less experienced players stopped commenting toward the argument at all.

Me, personally, I think the Marza is fine. Why? Well, given how powerful Cap. ships are supposed to be, given cost, and overall importance, the Marza is a good example of a powerful cap. ship. As for MB problems, it YOUR fault if the enemy just stormed in with a tiny fleet led by a lvl. 6 or higher Marza. As soon as that ship entered your Grav. well, it was YOUR job to send some ships over there to disable its antimatter, since the MB is so expensive compared to its other abilities. If your confronted by a large fleet with a lvl. 6+ Marza in tow, focus your firepower on the support ships, and have your antimatter specialists(a.k.a. Light frigates, Dunovs, Radiances, etc.) take out the Marza's antimatter, fast. Casualties are moderate with this tactic, but lower than if you let the Marza unleash the MB.

There, now quit complaining.

Koda0

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Well I thought I would share my experience with the Marza.

I was playing as Vasari. My neighbor was TEC who I ran into fairly quickly on a huge ,4 hard AI's map.

Seeing how he was causeing me early game grief by constantly attacking my 1st Asteriod settlement I started to make sure I sent pirates everytime to him to slow him down.

That was a bad move because just when about mid-game (huge fleets) I had about 11 caps at the choke with a very balanced fleet and all tatical slots filled with turrents and hanger defense and repair bays and a half-upgraded star base when he attacked. Now he was constantly attacking me there , thats why I had my fleet there but never with Marza, but this time I saw he had 2 Marza's. I said "man I'm gonna spank these dudes" . He had a better supporting fleet than I did but I had more caps and proceeded to focus fire on 1 of the Marza. It was then I casually moused over the Marza to target the focus fire when I realized it was a level 10 marza and then I checked the other and it was level 8 and this was at mid game and my caps were about level 5-7 average.

Lets just say after it was all said and done those 2 Marza's destroyed 8 out of the 11 caps I had and half my supporting fleet and star base destroyed to before I could kill the 1 level 10 Marza.

All I got to say is a level 10 Marza is a beast. Do I want it nerfed ......no.. it was actually a very humbling experience for me. Now I consider myself not a bad RTS player, but definitely not a good one, but one of you guys made the point of the best offense is to not fight it at all.

Now if I didnt keep sending those pirates he would not have had those beasts it was my bad choices that really lead to my bad luck.

I did not run away and paided the price, I had no respect for the enemy's capability and he basically out classed me at that one battle , was I pissed? yes! it cost me a small fortune to replace my ships which stalled everything research,planet upgrades etc..

In conclusion if you take away the Tec's Marza. What do they really have......? They need that Marza as is. I'll learn to deal with it. It can only make me a better player in the long run.

Not trying to flame anyone just my 2 bits.

Have a good one guys

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dont quit complaining guys!we shall whine untill they nerf it!hooah!

behind 'marza is fine' comments I usually see marza abusers.....I will try to reinforce my position about the topic:

When one player uses marza,another is forced to quickly find a counter against it(or kill it) - and this doesnt work counter clockwise,marza is just a dps cap with Apocalypse Now! button,and which has no specific use(except destroying everything in its path,including planetoids).This leads to -

1.A player that bought a marza automatically dictates the play style for hes enemy (shoot that thing!omg*panic* run!!).

while disabling and using other special abilities,of both capital ships and lesser vessels is a good option - it takes a much bigger measure of effort while enemy ,as it is already pointed out,simply grins and pushes the button .

2.Efforts spent on using the marza dreadnought,and countering its special ability are uneven.Badly uneven.

Now,previous 2 points of view wouldnt have much weight,and could be gladly ignored by most of the player base,and none of us would be here,if not this last point:

3.Marza Dreadnought's special ability is godly overpowered and is just outstanding,when compared to anything else in this game.

3 is enouph

YOU KNOW WHAT

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repeating my proposition - make that it hits both friends and foes ,would add more depth to the game

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Quoting koda0,

reply 18

If your confronted by a large fleet with a lvl. 6+ Marza in tow, focus your firepower on the support ships, and have your antimatter specialists(a.k.a. Light frigates, Dunovs, Radiances, etc.) take out the Marza's antimatter.

There, now quit complaining.

You are asking for having your ass handed to you.
Light frig's anti-antimatter abilities don't work on caps.
Play the game a bit before playing smart.

"Learn to counter" is the dumbest response you can come up with after all that was written in this thread.

So there is no problem with one cap being able to single-handedly wipe a whole fleet? No siree, just counter it.

Ok then my question is: what the f. was wrong with Malice+CB combo? I mean, it was just as OP as MB is now.
Two caps, lvl3 and lvl6 could eradicate a whole fleet. What was wrong with that? Learn to counter! But was it left as it was? No, it was NERFED.

What was wrong with Returning Armada? Was it oh so bad? No it was not, learn to counter!
But was it left as it was? No, it was NERFED.

A game is when every side has even terms. I'm not saying everyone has the same ships and tricks, but everyone's strengths and weaknesses should sum up to an even chance of winning.

The truth is: if you take the caps away from the game completely, will TEC suck? No it will NOT suck. It can field a sh*tload of ships faster and cheaper that anybody else. It may not be quality over quantity, but it WORKS.
If you take all caps away, the game is more or less even.

Among the caps, however, the game is as even as a chess match between Chuck Norris and Bruce Lee (hint - only one of the two is actually alive).
Every cap ship has some decent ability that may or may not work better or worse, depending on what you have and what enemy has. On top of this is the stupid Marza which can simply wipe the floor with anything your throw at it.
Learn to counter? What makes you think HE won't counter your attempt?
The game becomes all about "what will you do bout his lvl6 Marza and what will he do to stop you".

Marza is screwed.
As screwed as Returning Armada and Malice+CB combo were.
And it is the only one not nerfed yet.

EDIT. Wow, proletari. You actually made a little sense with the last post.
Work on the font and you'll make your posts some decent read

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I agree. If you want to keep the marza OP, then fine - bring back RA for vasari, and bring back malice+cb for advent.

Speaking of Advent, I just finished watching a replay of a game a friend sent me from last night. 4 hours long, 3v3. The first hour one side killed 2 on the other side, leaving it 3v1. For the next 3 hours those 3 guys who owned most of the map tried to take out the lone Advent player who had maybe 6 planets. It was probably the most outrageous thing I've ever seen.

First attempt - a fleet of 47 kodiacs (yes, 47) and 30-something lrm from the tec player, plus some assorted ships from a vasari, attack advent fleet of between 8-10 drone hosts and 2 motherships. Result, advent WINS with minimal losses of drone hosts, both motherships survive. All attackers die. Why? Massively OP shield recharge, it was impossible to break.

Second attempt, tec player builds 70-something (yes, 70-something) upgraded cobalts, and sends them to try and take out the drone hosts (same 8-10), sitting next to the 2 motherships with shield recharge. He succeeds, losing all but 20-something cobalts. Both motherships survive, the 20-something cobalts retreat. 50-something cobalts - the hard counter to the carriers - lost.

Third attempt - they didn't make a move until the vasari built a ton of kostura cannons and bombarded the advent motherships God knows how many times. Then 70-something lrms were sent in, tons of carriers set to bombers, along with God knows what else from the vasari and the advent teammate to finally take the advent out. I wouldn't be surprised if those 3 guys lost thousands of ships to 2 advent motherships and about 10 drone hosts.

The early game was characterized by the tec teammate of the advent who wouldn't die using massively OP MB over and over again to annihilate both the tec enemy fleet and vasari enemy fleets at the same time, multiple times. That marza made it to level 10 easy because it was getting fed fleets from 2 of the enemy fleets. The marza didn't go down - even after that player resigned it was still in the game on the prowl long after.

I have tried to wrap my brain around this game but continue to be befuddled by its oddities and weird balances that don't seem to make sense. You see a game like the one I just witnessed and you just scratch your head and wonder if you can ever make sense of it. I just don't see how or why 40-something kodiacs should be wiped by 2 motherships and 8-10 drone hosts, or why it would take 70-something cobalts to kill those same drone hosts, losing most in the process. It's just a balance I'll never figure out or get used to.

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umm...no cap ships for the attackers? they deserved to lose. Ion bolt/magnetize could've screwed those motherships over good.

LFs are a hard counter to carriers but the tech level difference is so big. also advent carriers are 50% more effective than the other races.

how come no one built flak? would've screwed those carriers. build 50 and go steamroll that fleet!

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Agent I think Ive determined you just don't know how to play the game.

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