Sensor Radius of Military Starbases.

If you build a stationary starbase orbiting the planet Earth, do you expect it to be able to attack ships orbiting Pluto?

You do know that the main point of military starbases is to strengthen nearby fighting ships? You can put on attack assist/defense assist modules which will make all your nearby fighting ships _much_ more powerful.

(note that you only see the attack bonuses if your ships already have some attack, and similarly for the defense).

The only reason military starbases have weapons on themselves is so that it isn't _too_ easy for the enemy to destroy them if they slip through your lines.

If you build a stationary starbase orbiting the planet Earth, do you expect it to be able to attack ships orbiting Pluto?

I am wih you that I am happy with the current implementation, but I can't help myself here. In the current implementation, Military Starbases CAN assist ships by firing missiles, lasers, and providing screening, not only out to Pluto but if positioned correctly, in the next star system over. That's across light years, and they can help block lasers.

Careful in defending any implementation with logic or science.

It would be nice if there was a module we could install on military starbases that allowed it to attack things if not within its sensor radius maybe 1 or 2 squares away.

It seems reasonable that it can only act by proxy (ie having a ship to project its power though) at the long ranges they work at.

With regards to the question

#1 by tetleytea
Thursday, March 30, 2006 11:28 AM

If you build a stationary starbase orbiting the planet Earth, do you expect it to be able to attack ships orbiting Pluto?

Yes, I would expect it to, if Pluto was inside it's radius of effect.

Star Bases should be able to attack anything that comes into its effective area, I know people will disagree with me, but lets put it like this.

If it was real life, and we were all doing whatever it is that we would be doing in the year 2225, and we had just built a hulking great starbase to protect Mother Earth, and an enemy fleet appeared, and promptly attacked our planet, wouldn't you feel a bit confued about why the starbase didn't attack it.

And then you hear the news report.

"Sorry folks, the starbase didn't attack the enemy fleet when it came into reange because it only works if they attack it directly!"

LOL, now wouldn't that just make your day!

Military Stabases do not attack fleets directly unless they themselves are attacked. They provide logistical backup to nearby fleets thus increasing their effectiveness in combat. They are NOT gun turrets, and were never intended to be. The only ships that come within range of the starbases are the ones that attack them.

Military starbases have cannons that increase the attack power of ships that fight within its influence, so it is safe to assume that those ships are somehow effected in real time by the starbase as opposed to a overall effect which would be things like shields that are projected always and the shield in the combat left the starbase a few years ago. But that is also moot as the timeunit of the game is a week and light or anything else can only travel a fairly short distance by interstellar measurements in a week. I think that all starbases should have a minimum of 2 squares around it of protection area and a option in the orders menu to auto-attack any enemy ship that comes within range. that way you could place a starbase on a sector next to a planet and then use that to protect the planet. With an optional increase in effective range for some modules. While it is true that you cant fire at an enemy that is on the other side of the starsystem and expect to hit. It is also true that there is no way you can manuver and maintain control of the space over or around a planet with a starbase as big as the ones in gal civ lurking and creating supression fire around the planet. Which means that if the starbase is close enough then all attempts to conquer or attack a planet would be moot as it would be too dangerous so they would have to destroy the starbase first in anycase.

And to No118. Read the starbase module names before making claims that they are not gun turrents. There is a module that is "sniper tower" that increases friendly ship attack within its range. So i'd say they are gun turrents. The only problem is that it requires you to have 1 fighter so that you can benefit from that effect instead of benefitting from it on its own. If it is only on a radius of 1 then you wont be able to protect a planet with a single starbase, if it is on a radius of 2 then any ship that comes even on the other side of the planet would get attacked by the starbase prior to them trying to land. So the starbase would be able to defend. Any more than that would be optional but a minimum of 2 would be smart. Adding to that the suggestion i made about having modules increase the HP of starbases regardless of the content of the module (more space to aim at and then, by extension. More hull points. Would make starbases a viable option even in late game as they could be used to fortify a particular border and they could actually withstand a bit of beating in lategame

In that case, the weapons can fire at long range, but they need 'spotter' units to get an accurate hit. Sensors aren't accurate enough at that distance.

It really doesn't matter- it is not how the game is designed, you can justify it however you want but it was chosen that Military starbases work this way and it is unlikely to change. I think it's an interesting idea, that makes a nice difference from most other strategy games.

to quote sensors IV or such "Now we can almost see what is happening at that one persons house on the other side of the galaxy" or something along those lines.

It is true that the starbases should have a projected area effect on ships in combat outside of its potential fighting range (shield increases and so forth). But it should have a shorter area where it can activly defend as right now with 4 starbases per "solar system" there is no way to protect even a single planet with starbases. If they add a defence area to supplement the already present support area, it would be possible to defend planets. So ships should still remain the first line of defence while starbases would be the 2nd and 3rd line would be the planetary staging area (the fleet in orbit) and thent he actual planet itself. Now its only ships in orbit as there is no point in building large battlestations due to their very low HP and no area defend. Would give any defender a significant increase in odds of defending if any attacker has to either circle around starbases or have to fight a few extra battles which will cost just that few more ships.

Lack of implimentation dosnt mean lack of interest in implementing any ideas. Simply because it is so now dosnt mean it will always be so. Keep that in mind while critisising those who seek to change the game mechanics.

No, I agree absolutely. You cannot defend planets with starbases.

That's what you have spaceships for.

You misunderstand me, i'm advocating that you can, just that it probably wont be your first line of defence.

In closing, i would recommend that all starbases attack hostile units that come in any of the 8 squares that connect to them. And that military starbases attack any unit that comes within 2-3 squares. Ability ofcourse, would be dependant on being turned "on" in starbase options so as not to use the lightly defended prime target as the first line of defence if there is a huge military starbase next to it.

Consider starbases to be like artillery. Mostly for long distance support but if pushed can fight closer too.

And I'd recommend that they don't.

Because I like it that way.

How about miniature starbases then - like Imperial Galactica II?

These would be in synchronus orbit around the planet - with a limited amount of mudules - say 4 to 8 so that they won't be too powerful.

So you are saying starbases should be able to launch missles and fire lasers across parasecs? (starbases, missles, and lasers presumably don't have a Hyperdrive, so it would take quite a while even for a laser to reach them - ie 5-10 years)

You don't fire a tank turret half-way around the world, either; you use ICBMs for that.

Why can't we have ISBMs--Interstellar Ballistic Missiles--on our military starbases? Why not have "Warp Cannons" that fold the space that they fire into?

Heck, why can't we have artillery-class ships equipped with similar long-range weaponry? It'd add a whole new strategic and tactical level to the game's combat, for sure.

both sides are correct. The yaysayers in that a starbase does, apparently, shoot out to its influence radius. A sniper turret doesn't get called a sniper because it gets close in, after all. The naysayers have it correct because any basis of argument for purely realistic mechanics is very silly.

I side against having starbases attack.

First, I froo froo all over realism because my Galactic Malls are both stuck in influencer starbases (before they were taken out, can't find them 1.11) AND they produce no income. A mall so large that I had to use a constructor that took an entire planet's production ablity a month to create, and it produces no income. Gah. You have no idea how bothered I am that influencer and economic starbases are seperate entities, but I understand the need for balance and accept that I will never have my beloved factories and galactic opera houses in the same starbase anymore.

Secondly, look at the balance issues in favour of starbases in terms of their combat ablity; As far as I can see, they have no maintainence. A attack ship with no maintainence, even if it doesn't move? What about the absurdly small Starbase Fortification tech tree and the fact you don't have to worry about space vs. component size when arming a base? Personally, I think 10 attack all 15 def all ships that can attack with no maintainence a *little* over the top, and Fortification mark 2 for that level of personal performance isn't all that far down the tree. Given the size of that radius, you could attack anything that entered the sector that wasn't in the corners of said sector. Lastly, unlike galciv 1 there doesn't seem to be anything stopping anyone from stuffing a sector full of bases, though having not tried to stuff more that a few in the same sector I can't really be sure about that one.

Thirdly, how would assists work with starbases if the starbase itself attacked? Something really odd's going to come out of that.

Note that I know it's at least 15 defense, but can't precisely pinpoint the attack: It's 1 + 3 + 5 for basic weapons and Mk. 2 battlestations, but I can't remember what the Mk. 2 weapons themselves were. Might be 8 or 10 or something?

What I meant by the Imperium Galactica comment was - for anyone who played it - A miniature Starbase IN orbit of the planet (would act as part of the defence fleet via the build ship command and would have to show in the area where the ships are held, and so this would mean that you would have to have a couple of extra spaces. e.g. 1 orbital starbase = 2 slots)

And all I meant by the original post was that if an enemy ship enters the radius of effect of a militarised starbase (anystarbase which can attack, in this case) would be able to make 1 attack per turn.

There could be a mathematical equasion for it - e.g. every square away from the starbase that the enemy is, then the strength of the weapon loses .1 of its strength, down to a maximum of 1 - So, if your starbase has a mass driver strength of 10, and the enemy is on the furthest square covered by the starbase, then it will be able to attack at minimum strength.

The 'assist' modules would have to be programed to disable themselves if the starbase itself attacks, but would also need to be programed for either on or off if there is a second starbase covering the area the enemy is in.

I.E. If you have three starbases (say 2 eco's + 1 Mil) and they all have 4 - 5 squares of the same space in their effective area, and an enemy comes into it, then the military base will be able to attack (because that is what it is designed for) and the eco ones may or may not be able to help. Basically, this idea allows the player to sort of use the starbases like a stationary fleet, spread out with large distances between them.

It's only an idea after all, so whatever you guys diside on, it won't make a difference to the game, unless a Gal Civ III comes out.

or 2.5; I wouldn't rule anything out, given that the developers here are actively involved with their game, which means both that we get support and that they make a lot of tweaks. Heck, it's not a bad mod idea; You'd think a starbase would at least try to prevent someone from storming a planet with a 1 hp transport. Talk about lazy spacers.

I think the simplest way to simulate what your asking for is simply to have any planet that's in the radius of a military starbase be uninvadable, so you have to destroy the starbase first.

Of course, you wouldn't want starbases too much like the Imperium Galactica starbases as those things just sucked...

I thought they were pretty cool for the time - you could have like 8 of the beggers - You try getting past 8 of the huge ones... It was harsh to say the least - I would love to know what the expansion pack/s will do to the game.....

Hurry up Star Dock ha hahaahaha

But with all that effort you put into researching the better Starbase techs, you could have built yourself a much better fleet of spaceships, which would not only be more effective in combat but also would be able to move.

The starbases would have been quite useful if only they had been fitted with shields...

That said, I would tend to build a few if I was bored. Planetary guns as well, even though those were just as useless. Just because I could.

Well science justifications being thrown totally out of the window due to it being a space opera sci-fi setting....

An easy justification is that bases through their assist abilities, do in fact have the ability to fire anywhere in their radius of effect, unfortunately targeting ships at these ranges is completely impossible due to electronic warfare, and the naturally scrambling effect of FTL travel through hyperdrive.

The only way for starbases to actively become involved in combat at this range is through real time targeting solutions provided by faster than light communication, this information is derived from the targeting systems of the craft itself, this is why the ship has to be armed.

BUT!!! The real reason?! Because letting starbases engage ships would make attempting an attack in the early game rediculously difficult, essentially starbases could stand in for ships in the early game. You have to consider the ramifications of any change that you advise. It's not that I don't think starbases firing at long range isn't a cool idea, but in my opinion it would throw off the game completely as it stands.

The more I think about it the more i'm torn between wanting starbase sector defense, 'cause it'd be a nifty game mechanic (after all, getting your starbase lines up takes quite a bit of doing, and you do have other priorities, like influence, trade and most probably mining centers to get up and running) and not, as deep striking with fast, multi-engined designed transports (my planetary strikeships) has become a rather standard early-mid game strategy for me. The strikeship looks nice and contoured too. :3

I don't understand no118's comment about shields. They have all three defenses, and it only takes the fortification techs tree to get to them, 1 2 and 3. In addition, you get an additional ultimate defense of the type for any defense line you research near the end, such as Invulnerablity Bloom when you get to invulnerablity fields in the starship tree. All in all, you can technically make starbases very formidable; In my mind, its the time marshalling that many constructors to a single point that takes more time than the actual research.

Then again, I invest heavily in research related bonuses and ablities, so it generally goes fast for me. As they say, mileage may vary.