BuckGodot

Join Date 11/2009

+73

So I decided to try to create an Insaner than Insane map today (SPOILER: It didn't work - Partial Debug.err Inside)

Intrigued by a comment in the Modding devchat by someone (I forget who, apologies ) that they tried to modify the MapSizeDef file to allow for maps larger than Insane (IIRC, they said they modified it by one or two), I decided to take a deeper look at that XML to see if I could suss out a way to make it work. Perhaps the map has to be divisible by a certain number to work.

SPOILER: Nope. At least one value I tried didn't work.

First, an overview. There are presently nine different map sizes in the game. There are various definitions in the MapSizeDef file, but, at least for the purposes of total number of tiles, there is one filed that really stands out:

Where Foo is the number of tiles on a side of the map.

There is another entry which is slightly interesting called <MapGenSectorSize>Foo</MapGenSectorSize> which presumably slices up the internal map into chunks for the game to do... whatever it does with internal sectors.

For the maps on an unmmodded game we have:

30:8
40:10
60:12
72:14
95:16
180:16
240:16
290:16
380:16

With the first number being the tiles on an edge of a map side and the second number the size of the sectors. There doesn't seem to be a huge correlation between the two at first glance, except the divisibility by 2.

So instead of changing the map width of Insane to 382 or 384, I decided to try out 400. That would be 25 x 16. Theoretically if a 15 x 16 map was good (240), perhaps a 25 x 16 one would be. Well, as I said, no. The game crashed while trying to build the map as mentioned in the chat portion of the devchat.

But I decided to look into the debug.err file to see just when the game actually did crash and compare it to a game whose map did generate. It got as far as actually creating the colonies for each of the starting eight races before crashing:

DebugMessage: *********END dxdiag info.*********
Debug Message: CInitializationListener::OnSetContinentsPerPixelDataTail
Debug Message: CGalCiv3Shell::RequestInitializationState from: LoadingContinentTextures to: CreatingContinentData
Debug Message: Popup Manager Update: Unhiding TitleWnd
Debug Message: CInitializationGfxListener::OnCreatingContinentsTail
Debug Message: CInitializationListener::OnSetContinentsDataTailA
Debug Message: CInitializationListener::OnSetContinentsDataTailB
Debug Message: CGalCiv3Shell::RequestInitializationState from: CreatingContinentData to: DoneCreatingContinentData
Debug Message: Popup Manager Update: Unhiding NewGameWnd
Debug Message: Popup Manager Update: Unhiding LoadingWnd
Debug Message: STARTUP_STATE CreateMap 17.149591
Debug Message: STARTUP_STATE CreateMapBegin 0.002243
Debug Message: STARTUP_STATE SetupPlayers 0.002960
Debug Message: Player 0 CompleteResearch tech Colonization originalResearcher 1
Debug Message: Research Complete [PlayerID 0, Colonization]
Debug Message: Player 0 CompleteResearch tech Engineering originalResearcher 1
Debug Message: Research Complete [PlayerID 0, Engineering]
Debug Message: Player 0 CompleteResearch tech Warfare originalResearcher 1
Debug Message: Research Complete [PlayerID 0, Warfare]
Debug Message: Player 0 CompleteResearch tech Governance originalResearcher 1
Debug Message: Research Complete [PlayerID 0, Governance]
Debug Message: Player 2 CompleteResearch tech Imperialism originalResearcher 1
Debug Message: Research Complete [PlayerID 2, Imperialism]
Debug Message: Player 2 CompleteResearch tech Engineering originalResearcher 1
Debug Message: Research Complete [PlayerID 2, Engineering]
Debug Message: Player 2 CompleteResearch tech Warfare originalResearcher 1
Debug Message: Research Complete [PlayerID 2, Warfare]
Debug Message: Player 2 CompleteResearch tech Intimidation originalResearcher 1
Debug Message: Research Complete [PlayerID 2, Intimidation]
Debug Message: Player 4 CompleteResearch tech Propagation originalResearcher 1
Debug Message: Research Complete [PlayerID 4, Propagation]
Debug Message: Player 4 CompleteResearch tech Engineering originalResearcher 1
Debug Message: Research Complete [PlayerID 4, Engineering]
Debug Message: Player 4 CompleteResearch tech Warfare originalResearcher 1
Debug Message: Research Complete [PlayerID 4, Warfare]
Debug Message: Player 4 CompleteResearch tech Interaction originalResearcher 1
Debug Message: Research Complete [PlayerID 4, Interaction]
Debug Message: Player 6 CompleteResearch tech Colonization originalResearcher 1
Debug Message: Research Complete [PlayerID 6, Colonization]
Debug Message: Player 6 CompleteResearch tech Engineering originalResearcher 1
Debug Message: Research Complete [PlayerID 6, Engineering]
Debug Message: Player 6 CompleteResearch tech Warfare originalResearcher 1
Debug Message: Research Complete [PlayerID 6, Warfare]
Debug Message: Player 6 CompleteResearch tech Influence originalResearcher 1
Debug Message: Research Complete [PlayerID 6, Influence]
Debug Message: Player 8 CompleteResearch tech Expansion originalResearcher 1
Debug Message: Research Complete [PlayerID 8, Expansion]
Debug Message: Player 8 CompleteResearch tech Engineering originalResearcher 1
Debug Message: Research Complete [PlayerID 8, Engineering]
Debug Message: Player 8 CompleteResearch tech Warfare originalResearcher 1
Debug Message: Research Complete [PlayerID 8, Warfare]
Debug Message: Player 8 CompleteResearch tech Economics originalResearcher 1
Debug Message: Research Complete [PlayerID 8, Economics]
Debug Message: Player 8 CompleteResearch tech Trade route optimization originalResearcher 1
Debug Message: Research Complete [PlayerID 8, Trade route optimization]
Debug Message: Player 8 CompleteResearch tech Expanded Trade originalResearcher 1
Debug Message: Research Complete [PlayerID 8, Expanded Trade]
Debug Message: Player 10 CompleteResearch tech Expansion originalResearcher 1
Debug Message: Research Complete [PlayerID 10, Expansion]
Debug Message: Player 10 CompleteResearch tech Engineering originalResearcher 1
Debug Message: Research Complete [PlayerID 10, Engineering]
Debug Message: Player 10 CompleteResearch tech Warfare originalResearcher 1
Debug Message: Research Complete [PlayerID 10, Warfare]
Debug Message: Player 10 CompleteResearch tech Conversion originalResearcher 1
Debug Message: Research Complete [PlayerID 10, Conversion]
Debug Message: Player 12 CompleteResearch tech Colonization originalResearcher 1
Debug Message: Research Complete [PlayerID 12, Colonization]
Debug Message: Player 12 CompleteResearch tech Engineering originalResearcher 1
Debug Message: Research Complete [PlayerID 12, Engineering]
Debug Message: Player 12 CompleteResearch tech Warfare originalResearcher 1
Debug Message: Research Complete [PlayerID 12, Warfare]
Debug Message: Player 12 CompleteResearch tech Communications originalResearcher 1
Debug Message: Research Complete [PlayerID 12, Communications]
Debug Message: Player 14 CompleteResearch tech Adaptation originalResearcher 1
Debug Message: Research Complete [PlayerID 14, Adaptation]
Debug Message: Player 14 CompleteResearch tech Exploration originalResearcher 1
Debug Message: Research Complete [PlayerID 14, Exploration]
Debug Message: Player 14 CompleteResearch tech Warfare originalResearcher 1
Debug Message: Research Complete [PlayerID 14, Warfare]
Debug Message: Player 14 CompleteResearch tech Relations originalResearcher 1
Debug Message: Research Complete [PlayerID 14, Relations]
Debug Message: STARTUP_STATE FixupPlayerSlots 0.117176
Debug Message: STARTUP_STATE SetLocalPlayerID ulPlayerID -1
Debug Message: STARTUP_STATE SetLocalPlayerID ulPlayerID 0
Debug Message: Player 16 CompleteResearch tech PirateBases originalResearcher 1
Debug Message: Research Complete [PlayerID 16, PirateBases]
Debug Message: Player 16 CompleteResearch tech Engineering originalResearcher 1
Debug Message: Research Complete [PlayerID 16, Engineering]
Debug Message: Player 16 CompleteResearch tech Interstellar Travel originalResearcher 1
Debug Message: Research Complete [PlayerID 16, Interstellar Travel]
Debug Message: Player 16 CompleteResearch tech Hyperdrive Specialization originalResearcher 1
Debug Message: Research Complete [PlayerID 16, Hyperdrive Specialization]
Debug Message: Player 16 CompleteResearch tech Warfare originalResearcher 1
Debug Message: Research Complete [PlayerID 16, Warfare]
Debug Message: Player 16 CompleteResearch tech Weapons Systems originalResearcher 1
Debug Message: Research Complete [PlayerID 16, Weapons Systems]
Debug Message: Player 16 CompleteResearch tech Communications originalResearcher 1
Debug Message: Research Complete [PlayerID 16, Communications]
Debug Message: Diplomacy State Changed. [PlayerID 16, PlayerID 0, Foreign -> Enemy]
Debug Message: Diplomacy State Changed. [PlayerID 16, PlayerID 2, Foreign -> Enemy]
Debug Message: Diplomacy State Changed. [PlayerID 16, PlayerID 4, Foreign -> Enemy]
Debug Message: Diplomacy State Changed. [PlayerID 16, PlayerID 6, Foreign -> Enemy]
Debug Message: Diplomacy State Changed. [PlayerID 16, PlayerID 8, Foreign -> Enemy]
Debug Message: Diplomacy State Changed. [PlayerID 16, PlayerID 10, Foreign -> Enemy]
Debug Message: Diplomacy State Changed. [PlayerID 16, PlayerID 12, Foreign -> Enemy]
Debug Message: Diplomacy State Changed. [PlayerID 16, PlayerID 14, Foreign -> Enemy]
Debug Message: StartGame 0.000000
Debug Message: Game Started (New Game).
Debug Message: ShipComponent Created. [AuthorID 0, Name DidThisWork]
Debug Message: Map Generation using seed: 892362229
Debug Message: CreateColony 5027
Debug Message: CreateColony 5037
Debug Message: CreateColony 5049
Debug Message: CreateColony 5063
Debug Message: CreateColony 5077
Debug Message: CreateColony 5092
Debug Message: CreateColony 5107
Debug Message: CreateColony 5117
Debug Message: Dumping Stack Trace: SymInit: Symbol-SearchPath: '.;C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Galactic Civilizations III;C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Galactic Civilizations III;C:\Windows;C:\Windows\system32;SRV*C:\websymbols*http://msdl.microsoft.com/download/symbols;', symOptions: 530,

(Whole bunch of Dump messages snipped)

====

Checking a sucessfully created game, the later portion goes something like this:

Debug Message: Diplomacy State Changed. [PlayerID 16, PlayerID 0, Foreign -> Enemy]
Debug Message: Diplomacy State Changed. [PlayerID 16, PlayerID 2, Foreign -> Enemy]
Debug Message: Diplomacy State Changed. [PlayerID 16, PlayerID 4, Foreign -> Enemy]
Debug Message: Diplomacy State Changed. [PlayerID 16, PlayerID 6, Foreign -> Enemy]
Debug Message: Diplomacy State Changed. [PlayerID 16, PlayerID 8, Foreign -> Enemy]
Debug Message: Diplomacy State Changed. [PlayerID 16, PlayerID 10, Foreign -> Enemy]
Debug Message: Diplomacy State Changed. [PlayerID 16, PlayerID 12, Foreign -> Enemy]
Debug Message: Diplomacy State Changed. [PlayerID 16, PlayerID 14, Foreign -> Enemy]
Debug Message: StartGame 0.000000
Debug Message: Game Started (New Game).
Debug Message: ShipComponent Created. [AuthorID 0, Name DidThisWork]
Debug Message: Map Generation using seed: 738509286
Debug Message: CreateColony 5028
Debug Message: CreateColony 5042
Debug Message: CreateColony 5053
Debug Message: CreateColony 5067
Debug Message: CreateColony 5081
Debug Message: CreateColony 5096
Debug Message: CreateColony 5113
Debug Message: CreateColony 5126
Debug Message: CreateShip
Debug Message: PlaceShipOnMap. tileX 337 tileY 140
Debug Message: Fleet Created. [PlayerID 0] [FleetID 13972]
Debug Message: CreateShip
Debug Message: PlaceShipOnMap. tileX 338 tileY 140
Debug Message: Fleet Created. [PlayerID 0] [FleetID 13974]
Debug Message: CreateShip
Debug Message: PlaceShipOnMap. tileX 338 tileY 141
Debug Message: Fleet Created. [PlayerID 0] [FleetID 13976]
Debug Message: CreateShip
Debug Message: PlaceShipOnMap. tileX 497 tileY 734

Debug Message: Fleet Created. [PlayerID 2] [FleetID 13979]

(and so on and so on and so on for putting ships on the map)

So the game is crashing when it tries to put the actual ships on an actual tile. Which is a little interesting, actually. Out of bounds tiles, maybe? The X/Y value needs to be defined elsewhere in an(other) XML? The fact that it allegedly actually created a map surprised me. As well as creating colonies.

Is this info of any use whatsoever beyond purely academic interest? I have no idea, actually. I just stick my toes into modding and glancing at debug.err files. I leave the heavy lifting to others.

Still maybe this will inspire someone else to see something that might make this work. Or not. But at least I found out when the game crashes.

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That's not exactly true, I think. I'm pretty sure <Base></Base> defines the size of the map, on the sides if I have understood it correctly. But I might be wrong on this one as I also increased hex sector size when creating my custom map size.

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BuckGodot

Join Date 11/2009

+73

Quoting Sorentoft,

reply 1

Well, here are two unmoddified map defs. Tiny and Insane:

<MapSize>
<InternalName>Tiny</InternalName>
<HexSectorRadius>0</HexSectorRadius>
<HexSectorSize>30</HexSectorSize>
<Base>32</Base>
<RiftAppearanceChance>1.00</RiftAppearanceChance>
<StarboxDef>DefaultStarbox</StarboxDef>
<MinCameraZoom>100.0</MinCameraZoom>
<MaxCameraZoom>6800.0</MaxCameraZoom>
<MapGenSectorSize>8</MapGenSectorSize>
<NumAscensionPointsForVictory>2000</NumAscensionPointsForVictory>

======

<MapSize>
<InternalName>Insane</InternalName>
<HexSectorRadius>0</HexSectorRadius>
<HexSectorSize>380</HexSectorSize>
<Base>1600</Base>
<RiftAppearanceChance>0.00</RiftAppearanceChance>
<StarboxDef>DefaultStarbox</StarboxDef>
<MinCameraZoom>100.0</MinCameraZoom>
<MaxCameraZoom>18200.0</MaxCameraZoom>
<MinMapBoundOffsetY>-2000</MinMapBoundOffsetY>
<MapGenSectorSize>16</MapGenSectorSize>
<NumAscensionPointsForVictory>10000</NumAscensionPointsForVictory>
<GlobalCombatMods>
<EffectType>ShipRange</EffectType>
<Target>
<TargetType>Ship</TargetType>
</Target>
<BonusType>Multiplier</BonusType>
<Value>1.0</Value>
</GlobalCombatMods>

</MapSizes>

I know for a fact that the side of border on an Insane map isn't 1600 tiles. But you're probably on to something with that <Base></Base> means something.

Hmmm.

*checks out Tiny Map*

Huh. I count 31 tiles at the bottom of the map side. Interesting. Odd, even (not a pun ).

*thinks*

Ah. The 30 value is probably the line that makes up the sideof the hex. Consider a map size of five:

Very crude ASCII hex map, read clock wise:

XXXXX123451
XXXX50000002
XXX4000000003
XX300000000004
X20000000000005
1000000000000001
X50000000000002
XX400000000003
XXX3000000004
XXXX20000005
XXXXX154321

Checking out the base Tiny map of 30, it fits.

What that means for Base, I don't know.

But nice catch there!

====

You said you created your own custom map size. What size was it and what did it do? Just so I can see where I might have gone wrong here.

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androshalforc

Join Date 03/2007

+62

Heres a thought if it crashed when trying to place a ship try making a custom race that does not have any starting ships clone that race and see if it will start with just the two of you

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Quoting BuckGodot,

reply 2

Hmmm.

*checks out Tiny Map*

Huh. I count 31 tiles at the bottom of the map side. Interesting. Odd, even (not a pun ).

*thinks*

Ah. The 30 value is probably the line that makes up the sideof the hex.

Some interesting things about hex grids:

The number of tiles in each ring of hexes is equal to 6*R, where R is the ring number, with ring 1 being the first ring around a single tile.
The number of tiles on each edge of a ring of hexes is equal to R + 1, where R is the ring number, if the ring is centered on a single tile.
The total number of tiles in a hex grid with R rings centered on a single tile is 3 * R^2 + 3 * R + 1
If the hex grid is centered on an intersection of three tiles, then each ring of tiles will be of 3 + 6 * (R - 1) tiles, where R is the ring number and Ring 1 is the set of tiles whose intersection defines the center of the grid
Each ring in the grid centered on the intersection of three tiles will have three edges of R + 1 tiles and three edges of R tiles, where R is the ring number.
The number of tiles in a hex grid with R rings centered on the intersection of three tiles is 3 * R^2
If the hex grid is centered on the intersection of two tiles, there will be R tiles on 4 of the edges and R + 1 tiles on the other two edges, with R being the ring number and Ring 1 being the ring containing only the two tiles whose intersection defines the grid center.
Each ring in the grid centered on the intersection of two tiles will consist of 2 + 6 * (R - 1) tiles, where R is the ring number and Ring 1 is the ring consisting of the two tiles whose intersection defines the grid center
The grid centered on the intersection of two tiles which consists of R rings contains 3 * R^2 - R tiles.

Thus, the number of rings R in the hex grid can be thought of as a radius. I would tend to expect that it is R, or R plus a constant, which is defined as the base, though I cannot be certain (and at any rate, it doesn't matter whether the base is the ring count or the edge dimension; the two numbers are generally either identical or within 1 of one another). As far as what the relation is between the base size and the two sector sizes, I couldn't say; the sector sizes are too large to be radii for subgrids, the sector sizes don't divide evenly into the total number of tiles on the grid, and the sector sizes don't appear to have a functional relationship to each other or to the base dimension.

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<HexSectorSize>30</HexSectorSize> this is the size of the map the insane is set at 380 i tried adding to it and the game crashes it could be that is the top end of the map sizes. may have to do with the memory!

<Base>32</Base> seem the lower the base the less is on the map! atleast that is what I got.

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BuckGodot

Join Date 11/2009

+73

Quoting androshalforc,

reply 3

Heres a thought if it crashed when trying to place a ship try making a custom race that does not have any starting ships clone that race and see if it will start with just the two of you

Interesting idea, though I suspect it'll just crash when it places shipyards. I'll give it a chance though in the coming days when I have time/mood strikes me.

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Here's the changes I made to the huge map size:

    <MapSize>
       <InternalName>Huge</InternalName>
       <HexSectorRadius>0</HexSectorRadius>
       <HexSectorSize>150</HexSectorSize>
        <Base>356</Base>
       <RiftAppearanceChance>1.00</RiftAppearanceChance>
       <StarboxDef>DefaultStarbox</StarboxDef>
       <MinCameraZoom>100.0</MinCameraZoom>
       <MaxCameraZoom>16000.0</MaxCameraZoom>
       <MapGenSectorSize>16</MapGenSectorSize>
       <NumAscensionPointsForVictory>7000</NumAscensionPointsForVictory>

    <MiniMapIconScaleZoomedIn>0.6</MiniMapIconScaleZoomedIn>
    <MiniMapIconScaleZoomedOut>3.0</MiniMapIconScaleZoomedOut>
    <MiniMapIconScaleCurveToe>0.0</MiniMapIconScaleCurveToe>
    <MiniMapIconScaleCurveShoulder>0.0</MiniMapIconScaleCurveShoulder>
    <MiniMapIconScaleCurveInflection>0.688</MiniMapIconScaleCurveInflection>
    <MiniMapIconScaleCurveMin>0.036</MiniMapIconScaleCurveMin>
    <MiniMapIconScaleCurveMax>0.905</MiniMapIconScaleCurveMax>
    <MiniMapZoomLevels>130</MiniMapZoomLevels>
   </MapSize>

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from the little testing I have done:

<HexSectorSize>X</HexSectorSize>

-this determine the size of the map. I tested it with tiny and small maps and every time the side of the map hexagon is X+1 tiles long.

<Base>356</Base>

I am less sure of this but I believe this is the base number used to calculate the number of things ( at least planets) on the map.

In MapSetupDefs.xml you have the definitions for the none/rare/uncommon/occasional/common/abundant options for each map parameter. some are exponential factors(like <PlanetFrequencyExp>) some seem to be simple multiplicators. They obviously are part of a more complex formula and I think <base></base> define the base number in that formula.

In order to test this you can generate a map against 1 opponent then use the "colonize all" console command to colonize all the planets (including the extreme ones even if you don't have the tech). Now in your planet list you can see the total number of habitable planets generated for that map.

Change the base number in the xml, redo that and compare..

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I just did a bit of testing with the <base></base parameter.

I generated 5 large maps, scattered with A/A/A/A, 1 opponent no minor races,

with default base of 150 I got 125/126/142/121/121 planets.

with a modded base of 75 I got: 57/76/65/72/74 planets.

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BuckGodot

Join Date 11/2009

+73

Quoting ed4053,

reply 8

from the little testing I have done:

<HexSectorSize>X</HexSectorSize>

-this determine the size of the map. I tested it with tiny and small maps and every time the side of the map hexagon is X+1 tiles long.

<Base>356</Base>

I am less sure of this but I believe this is the base number used to calculate the number of things ( at least planets) on the map.

In MapSetupDefs.xml you have the definitions for the none/rare/uncommon/occasional/common/abundant options for each map parameter. some are exponential factors(like <PlanetFrequencyExp>) some seem to be simple multiplicators. They obviously are part of a more complex formula and I think <base></base> define the base number in that formula.

In order to test this you can generate a map against 1 opponent then use the "colonize all" console command to colonize all the planets (including the extreme ones even if you don't have the tech). Now in your planet list you can see the total number of habitable planets generated for that map.

Change the base number in the xml, redo that and compare..

Quoting ed4053,

reply 9

I just did a bit of testing with the <base></base parameter.

I generated 5 large maps, scattered with A/A/A/A, 1 opponent no minor races,

with default base of 150 I got 125/126/142/121/121 planets.

with a modded base of 75 I got: 57/76/65/72/74 planets.

Aha! That IS an excellent discovery. And dovetails quite nicely with the 1500+ planets that are on an Insane/Abundant/Abundant/Abundant map (base of 1600) at generation. And you're probably right about it setting the base level for other things. As you say the other part of the component is in MapSetupDefs. But for those who have been complaining that there aren't enough colonizable planets compared to GC II (it seemed to be about 80% or so), there is a main factor we can mod without mucking with the values for Rare/Uncommon/Common/Abundant. Though if it does set the base for everything, might need to be a bit careful to not to get too crowded of a map.

Even if nothing else is found out, this made it worthwhile right there. Now we just have to hope that putting 2000 planets on an I/A/A/A map (which would make it analogus to GC II) doesn't crash the game (I've found doing "colonize all" at startup on a 1500 map to be a....bad idea).

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BuckGodot

Join Date 11/2009

+73

Quoting Sorentoft,

reply 7

Here's the changes I made to the huge map size:

Thanks! I'll test something similar out sometime soon and see what happens.

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Quoting BuckGodot,

reply 10

(I've found doing "colonize all" at startup on a 1500 map to be a....bad idea).

Hehe yes same here, but still you have time to see the number of planets before the crash

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Played around a bit with map sizes.

<MapSize>
       <InternalName>Insane</InternalName>
       <HexSectorRadius>0</HexSectorRadius>
       <HexSectorSize>383</HexSectorSize>      I was only able to raise this to 383. Anything beyond that will crash for me.
       <Base>2600</Base>                               This is about as far as i can get this without crashing. I only tried increases of 100.
       <RiftAppearanceChance>0.00</RiftAppearanceChance>
       <StarboxDef>DefaultStarbox</StarboxDef>
       <MinCameraZoom>100.0</MinCameraZoom>
       <MaxCameraZoom>22200.0</MaxCameraZoom>
       <MinMapBoundOffsetY>-2000</MinMapBoundOffsetY>
       <MapGenSectorSize>3950</MapGenSectorSize>     Now this line has quite some interesting effects when changing it. Give it a try! 3950 was the most i could get to work

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