Diplomacy » Forum Post by flagyl

I haven't had this problem until today. Usually it was possible to make allies of other kingdom factions. Never been able to ally with an empire faction. I suspect that non-aggression pacts are causing problems. Had to give up on one game since had a NAP with the last faction and could not cancel it.

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The AI needs to be willing to accept agreements more easily. The reward for peace should be secure borders and helpful allies, through trade and research. But these require such high prices that staying peaceful is rarely worthwhile. You should not be punished for managing to stay on your neighbors good side. I've had instances where the AI would earn more money from a trade agreement than I would, and they still required an exorbitant amount of convincing to agree.

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Quoting ,

quoting post

In an effort to better understand the game and the victory types, I am trying to win using all four VC for different playthroughs.

I am trying to not wage war against my opponents, thereby winning under diplomatic conditions. The issue is that of the choices I am presented with, none of them seem to imply that a lasting peace or a coalition will be formed between the two nations.

In addition, while I am the dominant power in this scenario (I am Altar, with a 12K power rating; I am playing against Magnar-PR of 135 and Pariden-PR of 82), when I enter the diplomacy screen to discuss non aggression pacts, trade routes, etc, it seems as if I am required to pay them an exorbitant amount (I am trying to pair with Pariden at the moment), instead of them finding it within their interest to pay me what I ask (I don't want the money and I can afford to pay the cost, but it seems that if I am the super power, they should be the supplicants and acquiesce to my demands or get steamrolled).

Am I missing something? How can I enter into peace pacts with other nations?

Thanks in advance.

You must have never seen Star Wars. Did the Rebels join the Empire just because the Empire was a super power? Did the Rebels concede? Just because you have lots of money and power doesn't mean you are invincible. One of them may sneak in a Spell of Mastery Victory.

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In this game there is no such thing as sneaking in a Spell of Mastery Victory since the Towers are displayed in a corner. Only sneaky thing possible is Quest of Vicotry and since AIs don't bother with it they have no victory condition against a powerful empire which is a few thousand powerrating ahead. Naturally they should seek peace to be able to get a higher rating or win together with me.

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I would like an event, that occurs when a strong empire declares war against a weak one (which does not trigger on blood curse).

This event will spawn 800 Gold, 100 metal, crystal, 20 wargs, 20 horses, and +4 levels for all currently existing units. This would represent the populace, mercenaries and others to "come together" for a "Last Stand". This would be a ONE time event that once it happens, will not happen for the same nation again (to prevent a nation from going superman because 4 AI declared on it).

This event could also be used to "Offer" a weak nation to declare against a strong one while getting said bonuses to help the attack.

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So in essence, what people are saying is that a peaceful victory is impossible?

I would prefer a "walk softly and carry a big stick" diplomatic policy. It is unfortunate that this victory type doesn't seem possible (or at least readily obvious).

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i never got a diplo victory that wasn't actually a shortcut domination - you can usually form alliances with a handful of factions, but i think there's a mechanic that blocks alliances with opposing ideologies - once you ally a kingdom, alliances with empires seem impossible (and vice versa).

in my diplo victories, i usually had several allied factions and killed off everyone who wouldn't sign the alliance treaty.

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Quoting N1ghthavvk,

reply 4

In this game there is no such thing as sneaking in a Spell of Mastery Victory since the Towers are displayed in a corner. Only sneaky thing possible is Quest of Vicotry and since AIs don't bother with it they have no victory condition against a powerful empire which is a few thousand powerrating ahead. Naturally they should seek peace to be able to get a higher rating or win together with me.

Agreed. Those should be posted in the corner too as they are completed by other factions....and they SHOULD be attempted by other factions......and they SHOULD be harder to complete than they currently are.

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Quoting Azunai_,

reply 7

i never got a diplo victory that wasn't actually a shortcut domination - you can usually form alliances with a handful of factions, but i think there's a mechanic that blocks alliances with opposing ideologies - once you ally a kingdom, alliances with empires seem impossible (and vice versa).

in my diplo victories, i usually had several allied factions and killed off everyone who wouldn't sign the alliance treaty.

What kind of alliances do you usually employ to make a lasting peace agreement? The ones that are usually available to me are turn-limited (the NAP) or related to economics (although I think it would add to the depth of the game to allow finance be part of the equation of peace-'I can prosper by trading with them rather than wasting resources fighting them').

It would be nice if you could form some sort of peace agreement across Kingdom/Empire alliances. Make it SUPER hard to achieve but possible (mistrust, espionage...I know, I know, this goes beyond the scope of the game as it stands now). It is too bad there isn't a 'Charisma' trait that could be used for something like this. I like games where victory is attainable by a number of means (diplomactic, economic, etc) and not just by war-Deux Ex comes to mind.

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the alliance treaty you need for the diplo victory is unlocked with the "Alliances" tech near the end of the civilization tech tree. the trade, economy and non aggression treaties aren't necessary for that type of victory, but they are available much earlier and (i think) having mutual treaties makes them friendlier towards you over time, so it's usually a good idea to sign those treaties early on if you want to formally ally them towards the end of the game.

AI civs will usually charge you some gold for economy and trade treaties (not much if you are more powerful than them) - but that's ok - trade treaties increase your gildar income by 10%, so if you have a more powerful economy, you benefit more thatn the other party. the way i see it - if i sign a trade treaty and it increases my income by 2 g/turn, i can easily pay 40 g up front - after 20 turns the investment pays off (or even faster, since my economy will likely grow a bit in that time and so the bonus will also grow larger over time).

non aggression pacts can be a good measure of how powerful they really are. if they are at a neutral stance and will pay you money for a non aggression pact, chances are that they are less powerful than you. playing medium difficulty levels (challenging/hard) it's not too uncommon that i just "sell" NAP's in the mid game while i'm busy fighting monsters and not worried about conquest.

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Gracias Azunai_ and everyone else who took the time to reply.

I see...towards the end of the game (as it stands now), I am frustrated by the fact that the AI crosses my border without seeking permission (which I would grant, had they asked) but if I am standing near their territory during one turn, and they expand in the next, I am asked rudely to leave...that is when I pick up my big stick .

On my next play through, I will focus on getting to the end of the Civ tree and seeing if it is possible to ally with all of the AI.

Thanks again.

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My foreign policy is always neutral and not changeable.

Would like to be able to express my unhappiness when an empire faction declares war on a kingdom faction. Would also like it if that would have some meaning to the AI.

There are a lot of things that could be done with diplomacy but would take a bit of work, some day.

BTW It offends my moral sensibilities to play an empire faction. Hope there's a way to design an empire faction that is not evil.

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In my diplomacy victory, I just paid every faction for an Alliance. If I was more powerful than them, I'd first sell them a non-aggression pact to get some money, then I'd turn around and give some of that money back to them for the alliance. It actually seemed kind of lame that I went from nowhere near victory to winning in one turn.

This was in FE, though. I haven't tried it again in LH.

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i remember that i won diplo victories in FE in a similar fashion, but something changed in one of the FE patches i think. it was no longer possible to ally all of them. as soon as i had a few alliances going, the option was no longer available for the other parties. my conclusion was that it's ideology based - i noticed that i could no longer ally empires after allying a kingdom and vice versa - but that may be coincidence.

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Quoting N1ghthavvk,

reply 4

In this game there is no such thing as sneaking in a Spell of Mastery Victory since the Towers are displayed in a corner. Only sneaky thing possible is Quest of Vicotry and since AIs don't bother with it they have no victory condition against a powerful empire which is a few thousand powerrating ahead. Naturally they should seek peace to be able to get a higher rating or win together with me.

THat's ^ the problem of the programmer and programming and design though. That needs to be fixed and the ai made to go after anything and everything it can.

We don't need bandaids we need FIXES!

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I would like to get more interaction with AI players:

1. I would like to have trethning option. For me its often case that one AI declares war to onother. I would like to have tools to interfere in such of conflicts and that my treaths could be evaluated by AI into its consideration. For examle if AI atacks my neghbour which i like and i have friendly relationship, i would like to have pessure tools on its attackers.

2. I would like to have cooperation tools, so i could help for atacked faction. Like give to it my units for defence or garizon my units in its cities or guard its outposts. It is very often that i dont want to kill all 5-6 oponents i often want to cooperate with few of them while fighting others. At the moment if one decided to kill other all i can do is to atack the atacker, but i cant save the victim one nation.

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I would also like it if you could trade cities with the AI. Sometimes I want to take land away from an enemy, but not bother with more cities. Other times, an ally gets their cities taken over, and I'd like to give them back when I claim them.

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