Hey. Stardock. Do this. The main reason I don't use most outpost upgrades is that the chances of me needing to cast a spell or fight a combat in those specific 25 (or 36 for a high tower) squares of the map is tiny. Make the upgrade something that is done at the city rather than the outpost, and have it affect all the outpost ZoCs for outposts connected to that city.

They are very important to countering high difficulty AI stacks.

Of course if the game is easy you can easily skip stuff like this, but it starts to matter when you need that extra damage or armor. 

It's a bit confusing, so removing it from the city building queue, and just make it a fixed gold upgrade (which is how I use it anyways) would do wonders. Add some more graphical effects for the upgrades and it will be awesome. (making you see that highway you made etc.)

[Suggestions for graphical effects] 

Defensive: Real fortified borders on the map (merge this with caltrops, and outpost upgrades would be sweet)  You already have the graphic stuff in Fortress cities, recycle that ^^

Stables:  Should make the roads look more "modern" or something to show the speed, a border etc. would just look artificial.

Offensive: This is the hard part, make it look "red" maybe? 

Either way, outposts are great stuff on the map, and should stay that way. Removing them from cities completely as suggested and tying them into gold would be awesome. Removing them would remove strategy, and it's pretty easy to make them better IMO. 

i like that idea. if i remember correctly, Kael's Fall from Heaven mod for Civ 4 had a faction that had a very similar mechanic (don't remember the name unfortunately - i think they were some kind of centaur people). They had some real cities (3-5 depending on map size) and everything else was basically outposts that would never grow beyond size 1.

I am liking some of the suggestions in this thread.

If I might add to it, I would quite like it if outposts could be built via a spell like that one faction, but could possibly cost gildar for it as well for the faction who don't have an affinity for it.

Maybe restrict it to being cast only 2 tiles away from your own influence as well?

See bold in quote.

I eluded to this on the page before and I completely agree with you. Having to send another scout out to the outpost in question to upgrade it makes it more dificult to upgrade, yet changes the queue time at the city (as you are building a scout instead of an upgrade), allows you to CHOOSE which city builds the scout, and allows for the outpost upgrades to become more potent, and thus more worthwhile to build.

The 'outpost bomb' as mentioned would be the only thing I disagree with, but can easily be fixed by only allowing one upgrade per season on a given outpost.

I suspect that there has been a lot of chatter and talk in the changlog thread. Several people mentioned they did not like the outpost problem and suggested changing the system and usage of the outposts. I suggested that one upgrade the outpost to meet the cost of the 30 population instead of switching the unit that does the settling. Later that day this thread came up from the frogboy. My only conclusion for the purpose of this post was to identify what pieces people were using for outposts (so they may rethink how to use them) and secondary purpose as anyone knows when posting on the internet let it morph to identify what people would like to see outposts do instead and other ideas pertaining to outposts, and get rid of most of the talk in the changelog thread about outposts and put it in an appropriate thread.

I'm just speculating, but I suspect that this is at least 1 of the reasons behind this thread.

I like the thinking behind this... Right now outposts don't really feel like outposts... More like a scout tower off in the distance that doesn't really do much for you but expand your territory...

The issue is that outposts cost a lot to make and they are incredibly easy to lose... Having inherent defenders might be nice, just so that they can't be taken by a simple scout...

As far as upgrade, I only regularly use the high tower, consulate and maybe warden. The rest are too situational, cost too much and are too easy to destroy.

I agree outposts need to be overhauled.

My full suggestion:

I prefer my levelling idea for outposts- that's simpler- can be shown graphically more easily, and is less micro-intensive (so will help AI)

I'd suggest a 5-level system

Lvl 1- outpost that does nothing other than ZOC

Lvl 2- outpost gets a warden effect that works on "Weak" monster or player stacks, +10% att/def,

Lvl 3- outpost gets a warden effect that works on "Medium" monster or player stacks. +20% att/def, special bonus based on town pioners come from

Lvl 4-outpost gets a warden effect that works on "Strong" monster or player stacks +30% att/def, +1 ZOC (high tower)

Lvl 5- +50% att/def,  -10% unrest , upgrade to special bonus 

outpost bonuses do not stack

Special bonus at lvl 3/5

Towns or lvl 1 settlements: +.5/+1 growth

Forts: stables/caltrops

Conclaves: -25%/-50% cost to tactical spells.   Arcane monoliths also provide this.

Upgrading a settlement takes production.  Casting arcane monolith will also increase an outpost by a level.

THe downside to giving them their own queue is that it becomes a no-brainer to build up outposts to the max.

that's not necessarily an issue, though. if the production queue is pretty slow (say - 10 or 15 turns for each upgrade) you'd still have to make decisions which upgrades you want first, you can't rush that high tower to connect the cluster of conquered cities so it requires a bit of planning ahead. and last but not least - older outposts you settled in the early stages of the game become fully upgraded over time, which adds a bit to the immersion factor of your realm slowly taking back tand taming the post apocalyptic world

And on a related topic (not outpost though ) have Commanders in cities get experience for things that occur in the city they're in, but it a non-abusable way.  There needs to be some way for city-focused Commanders to get decent experience.

I love the idea of outposts, I like the fact that they can be upgraded, I just don't like how it's handled or the fact they are so vulnerable. They were compared to GC2 space stations when they were last updated, but I really don't feel they deserve that comparison. Outposts should be able to defend themselves like GC2 space stations, when freshly built they should be capable of defeating weak monster spawns, and eventually upgraded to be a tough fight for any army. They should be built and upgraded by (expensive) constructor units that aren't consumed in the process but instead have to spend like 10 turns working on it. Resources nearby should be protected by the outpost, can't raze them without razing the outpost. Lastly their influence area should be upgradable further to allow any area effects to be more worthwhile.

Basically, make them into GC2 space stations.

Exactly! I see no need to use those military upgrades. I may use hightower to close a gap, but that's it. The production costs and time are better spend somewhere else.