manrod

Join Date 07/2003

Create new cities

I'm new with the game (coming from a lifetime wit civilization) and i'm curious about one thing... there is really nothing in this game to prevent ics? In my game a found a little spot with a square to build a city. should i send immediately a pioneer? it seems to me that at the beginning the capitol must build nothing but pioneer and production building.

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I'm also new and from what I can tell so far the only reason why you should not expand is because you cannot protect the new cities. Wandering monsters will raze unprotected cities and early in the game some of the roving bands of monsters can be Strong or even Deadly which is usually enough to level any city.

But yeah, overall, ICS seems to be a good way to go if you can keep your cities safe. More cities = many upsides and no downsides (and I'm not entirely sure I mind that, I just wish the monsters would be slightly more aggressive as a means of prevent mad early REXing).

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well there are alternatives like rushing some troops

but in general yeah, the game is too much about cities and it doesnt seem to be any con to building them, i asked this for long time since i so hate having to spam cities all over just to not lose grasp on the game

stil the game has increased a bit the need of defenses so on higher diff lvls you probably need some troop early to help your sovereign and/or to defend your cities

i really doubt you can just spam 5 pionners and keep all those cities safe with no troop

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joasoze

Join Date 02/2006

+39

Things that reduce ICS (a bit)

The pioneers have a production cost (blocking the que a bit)

The monsters will come for you (on higher difficulty levels where you should be )

You have to find places to settle, and that is no easy chore at the moment

You will have to guard those pioneers while they move instead of attacking and getting exp on your units

Population growth is divided on all your cities slowing down their growth if you have lots of them

All in all it doesnt stop ICS, but its not like Warlock: Master of the Arcane where one more city is only a good thing always.

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NorsemanViking

Join Date 03/2006

+19

Yep, there are 2 main things. One is the one you mention. Especially on higher difficulties it's hard to expand too fast because of the monsters. The second thing is that more cities in most cases makes your cities grow slower, and you will get the bonuses of cities leveling up later.

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For what I've played (in challenging diff), you can have cities with no troops ONCE you have cleared the wildlands with some more safety.

Anyway, it doesn't mean that a random monster may appear...but with cleared lands and roads between cities, it should be easy to defend with little troops.

But remember that if you are at war, AI will try to attack defenceless cities too...

Other problem will be with clearing the strong or deadly lairs, it will take time to develope the heroes...so untill that, it is better stay away from those places...

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Quoting joasoze,

reply 3

Things that reduce ICS (a bit)

The pioneers have a production cost (blocking the que a bit)
The monsters will come for you (on higher difficulty levels where you should be )
You have to find places to settle, and that is no easy chore at the moment
You will have to guard those pioneers while they move instead of attacking and getting exp on your units
Population growth is divided on all your cities slowing down their growth if you have lots of them

All in all it doesnt stop ICS, but its not like Warlock: Master of the Arcane where one more city is only a good thing always.

Problem with ICS is that it's not the whole problem. you need pioneers to build outposts too. Naturally cities are more preferable in every way, but there are still many resources that need harvesting via outposts. It seems that for every city I build, I need 3 outposts to go along with it...as I expand... it's a major tax of my queue. Bottom line is that troop production suffers as its the only thing that doesn't progress your empire's growth directly...it defends it's growth.

Anyways, some of the beta testers tweaked with the pioneer building cost and received some impressive results. At a cost of 300gildar, pioneers were only being built for cities and only when absolutely needed. Seems to be the upper end. Imo, pioneers should cost between 100-200gildar to build AND should not be allowed to make outposts. Instead, the Scout unit should receive the ability to be consumed and build outposts.

Currently, scouts (if they are built) are tossed into auto-explore and left for dead. Self inflicted exile? Not a good game mechanic imo. However, IF scouts and only scouts had the ability to build outposts (okay...there's the Arcane Monlith as well...beyond that I don't think there is any other way), there would be purpose for the unit: Search out new resources and when satisfied on your findings, claim them.

This solution does soooo much for the game.

It separates the build costs (and queue costs) of the city spam and the pioneer spam
Each can be now eb controlled and tweaked independantly to help better balance the game.
Scouts receive a purpose in the game as currently there is NONE. (heroes are the only real scouts you'll ever need)
The increased cost for pioneers moderates city spam even further without interferring in your exploring and expanding.

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