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Quoting ARESIV, reply 89If he has Wail in the late game and a large fleet..... I am sorry, but he simple played better than you. If he has spent all his money on a large nasty fleet and still could afford Wail.... you should be easily capable of affording a superweapon....
Lol...there's a thing called feed...and I shall reiterate that he had more planets to expand into and I had to feed other front and suicide...getting a titan was a huge risk for me since other front desperately needed feed...then my front needed feed as well, and trying to get titan and 8 mil labs and nova is just not viable when you are constantly feeding 3 people, especially considering the planets I had to work with...every you say looks good on paper but in reality it just isn't as viable as you make it out to be....
You can never balance a game arround how much feed one has received. Feed, by its very nature drastically changes the balance of power. You can never balance the game arround that. With sufficient feed, even the weakest of factions will become an unstoppable juggernaut of destruction. Similar, the need to feed three people will put a strain on even the most powerful of economies.
Quoting ARESIV, reply 89While no longer capable, of doing damage to enemy worlds, the planet with Wail is UNATTACKABLE for anything but Novalith.
I'd rather be able to defend my own damn planets....
An understandable notion. Still, as I have said before, in my humble opinion a early Wail does considerable weaken economy... so you should have a larger fleet. If you now attack him on multiple fronts with just a portion of your fleet, he probably wont be capable of stopping more than one of those fleets with his smaller fleet. That only leaves him with the option to wail you. A planet is worth your entire fleet... no doubt about that. But if you split up your forces (And you can do that, because you can easily have 2 times his ships in early game if he rushes wail) he is forced to use SEVERAL planets, just to stop you.
Yes, he DOES STOP your assault cold.... but at a tremendous cost. The loss of income from even three planets it uttermost devastating especially in the earlier game. This is a loss he will not recover from for a very long time.
So, just to be clear, I see the scenario as the following:
Wail Advent: 60 ships
Other Race: 120 ships
Scenario 1: He attacks one of your planets that are in wail range: Your fleet cannot jump in, or risk extermination.
What can you do? Assuming the map has not a one chokepoint to rule them all type - which happes quite rare in random - you can flank him and attack him from multiple directions. 4 fleets consisting of 30 ships can at least kill the temples in a timely manner. His fleet is to small to hold the line and cant cover his entire empire. So he will loose logistics structures. He now hasnt many options:
He can continue attacking your planet with impunity... until your fleet begins to to hurt his empire too much.
He can abort the attack and try to defend, however he will be an inferior position due to far less ships.
He can use wail on multiple planets, killing your entire assault fleet. This is your nightmare - for understandable reasons. But actually this does put him on a considerable disadvantage in the long term. The loss of so many planets will ruin his eco and make it inferior to any other player out there. That means, to be victorious, his small fleet has to KILL YOU. Because, if he doesnt, you will simple steamroll him later due to far better economy.
However, prospects of victory are unlikely, even with all of your fleet gone, he still does not have a large fleet!
That means, a bit of defense on your endangered worlds will be all that is needed to stop his small fleet. After such extensive wail use his economy will be in ruins.
Scenario 2: The map has major chokepoints that cannot be ignored.
This is of course somewhat nasty. To attack him by normal means you need to get past the Wailshield.... something that if the wrong planets are there is only possible with capital ships. That means you have to change your strategy, instead of attacking, you are the one that needs to do some digging in. Usually choke points work both ways, so has no way to evade your fortifications. A starbase, even a lowly upgraded one will make short work out of anything people can field at this stage of the game. Of course, he can fly by your starbase and attack your backworlds, but those worlds are out of wail range and so your still superior fleet will win.
On a chokepoint map, the Advent Rebels can be very nasty. Unless you can smuggle part of your fleet past the wail area, you have to wait until the late game before you can attack them. It is irony of destiny, that the Advent Rebels are the better turtlers than the TEC Loyalists. Still, that alone is not OP imho, a single Orky does deny any attack to a planet, too, long into mid game.
I'd also like to be able to attack enemy planets like moons and asteroids...wail can prevent both of those, and neither of those situations are "rarities"...
I understand that! 
But if Wail does affect the Gravity well of the sacrificed planet.... Moons and asteroids ARE THE ONLY PLANETS YOU EVER CAN ATTACK! YOU CANNOT ATTACK ANY OTHER PLANET THEN, because you ENTIRE fleet will get WIPED out, as soon as the Advent is realizing he is on the loosing end. It would be like BRB, just many times more powerful. Not by damage, but by range.... BRB is powerless against carriers..... Wail on the same gravity well does wipe out even the heaviest of carriers effortlessy. Sure capitalships may survive... but then with Capships alone you are not going to do anything against a good defense. As there will be at least a few temples there, culture war is no option too. That leaves Novalith...
Quoting ARESIV, reply 89Because: The Advent will have maxed out defenses on that world..... to protect the temple. Expect a fully upgraded Transcenia, repair platforms, temple of renewals and enough hangar defenses to make even the highest level Titan cry for mercy.
Now I'm convinced you are trolling me...you tell me to build siege frigates to deal with wail evenn though you grant that the wail planet is likely heavily defended with SC????
You know, I happened to think the same about you... 
No, this is a misunderstanding. Right now there is little reason to place defensive structures at a wail planet under normal circumstances. Because Wail itself is the defense against a major assault, while minor assaults can be dealt with a small task force that is diverted from your main fleet.
With Wail only affecting the gravity well of the sacrificed planet, this does change drastically. Now, it can no longer defend any other worlds but itself. However, this defense of itself would then be nearly unkillable.
Jump in a small fleet - Defenses kill you
Jump in a large fleet - Wail kills your fleet, defenses kill Titan and surviving capships.
Imagine a Terran planet, maximum population and wail capable. Also imagine it to be fortified to the maximum.
Solution for TEC - current Wail implementation: Novalith the planet. Then afterwards first jump into the adjacent gravity wells and then jump to the newly destroyed/razed population planet. Your entire fleet will make short work out of the defenses... = the planet is YOURS. There is very little advantage for the Advent to have fortified that world.
Solution for Vasari - current Wail implementation: Ignore adjacent gravity wells completly, jump in your entire fleet and crush the defenses = The planet is YOURS. Again, very little has the advent gained by fortifiying his world to the maximum.
And so, the Advent will likely spent his money on something more useful.
Now, again, imagine the exact same situation from above... with your Wail implementation.
TEC solution..... kill everything else.... adjacent gravity wells are safe now after all.... then Novalith the planet.... then jump in and kill the defenses..... no problem what ever.
Against TEC, Wail would be considerable weaker in late game (all those defences require a late game eco after all)
Vasari solution? Uhm..... what solution? No longer I have the advantage of the Kostura avoiding the death zone.... and any serious assault on that world will cost me my entire fleet.... any non serious assault wont destroy the temple or the defenses.
Being nearly invulnerable to any Vasari onslaught is a huge selling point for Advent.... and so unlike the current wail implementation, it would be an excellent idea to fortify your wail planet.
Well, it would certainly be entertaining to see Vasari armada after Vasari armada to be massacred.... but no doubt many people would - rightfully - consider it way to powerful. And as such Wail would be nerfed.... probably so hard that is would be totally useless. And so, Advent would probably fall even more out of favor on MP.
Quoting ARESIV, reply 89You cant attack that anymore, with Wail being that way. Only Capitalships and Titans are durable enough to withstand Wail... but then those do not stand a CHANCE against the fortifications!
Lol...consider two situations, the wail planet with defending fleet and the wail planet without...
With a defending fleet, the planet is unapproachable...but that's not much different from two SBs with RB that force you two trickle forces in (that will get picked off super easily...you basically have to use only caps/titan....biggest difference is that superweapons (technically all 3, though DE takes way too long) can negate wail, while SBs with RB are immune to superweapons...
Without a defending fleet, wail requires the use of a titan/caps...sure, you can't trickle in bombers like you could against SBs with RB, but a culture center is a hell of a lot easier to kill than an SB...
Yes, it is.... but with shield bestowal and a few backup culture centers, it still quite time consuming..... time you dont have because the defense will tear any non all in assault apart. And if you attack with your entire fleet.... he will use wail..... good bye entire fleet.
Without a defending fleet, my proposition for wail can be countered about as easily as SBs with RB...with a defending fleet, my proposition makes it much easier when superweapons are involved...and if you tell me a counter for wail should come earlier than superweapons,
In theory yes, but not in practise. As I have explained above, right now it is not economical to build a ton of defense on a planet used for wail.... changing to your implementation it is highly economical because it makes the planet more or less invulnerable to anything but Novalith.
You at least can trickle your fleet past dual BRB.... yes it is costly as the starbases will fire everything they have at your happless fleet.... but it is possible... and once enough carriers are out of range, the starbase will die.
But you cannot avoid wail if it is affects the gravity well of the sacrificed planet.... you would need to kill the temple.... before I hit the button and immediatly pulverise your fleet. As AR I naturally dont want the temple (or its backups) to die and as such I will place every single nasty thing advent have at their disposal between you and that temple. Dont forget... Dual BRB requires that the starbase is placed at the edge of the gravity well.... with Wail have no such limitation.
The temples might be very well at the opposite end of the gravity well... far away from your jump in point.... hiding behind a wall of steel consisting of a maxed out starbase, enough hangar defenses to deal with anything but the most vicious bomber spam, (that I will deal with by simple wailing your 60+ carriers and the rest of your fleet into oblivion) possible a large field of the best mines in the game right in your way and of course a jump inhibitor aswell as repair platforms and temples of renewals.
I do agree that Wail could use some adjustments. I admit, that if there is an hostile Avent that by luck or a bad going war has managed to have a wail capable world adjacent to your core worlds is a very serious threat. Still, I honestly believe it can be countered.... especially in the earlier stages of the game. Placing of starbases at your endangered worlds will end any and all invasions dreams he might have for quite a while. Once in lategame, you have more options to work against Wail.
General ideas of how one could deal with the danger:
What about TEC Marza with Raze Planet? It is durable enough to survive wail and might actually kill the planet before the wail player fleet can destroy it.
I still think that the siege frigates could be useful. Any defense under such cirumstances should be done by starbases anyway and so if nothing else groups of siege frigates on multiple front lines will at least force him to split up his fleet. Possible, with enough preoccupation, he might miss your fleet jumping in, too. Once behind the wail area.... nothing can stop you from inflicting large amounts of damage to his empire.
I think a delay between activation and the destructive effect would solve most of the issues you have. Corvettes are quite fast ships, they might be capable of getting away in time.
What about giving Wail 2 Levels? On the first Level, it has 40 seconds delay.... on the second level (Tier 8) it has just 20 seconds delay.
The problem for any damage reducation of Wail is that the area between OP/usefull/useless is damm thin.
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