TEC red button range buff » Forum Post by Mecha-Lenin

Quoting GoaFan77,

I thought it was weak but then I've never seen anyone use it on the edge of a phase lane before (even in the replays of pro games). That said, they only buffed the range by 1000/2000. Considering the gravity wells in Rebellion are bigger shouldn't that somewhat even out the percentage of the gravity well entrance, compared to Diplomacy? Sure that still leaves the loyalists able to use two starbases but that requires a level 8 tech, so it won't be seen until end game.

In diplo RB left only very narrow passage to slip into grav well, and even then you would sometimes lose part of the fleet. 2k range more changes everything.

Quoting GoaFan77,

reply 25

And if they do put the range back I think they should keep the strikecraft getting destroyed. If your starbase does get sniped by bombers at the least you should be able to take them all out giving your fleet a window to destroy the carriers without resistance.

By any means, no. Only real way to kill RBed SB is through bomber spam, and losing all SC makes carrier fleet defenseless for several minutes. This is supposed to be game of counters. What is counter to this fairly cheap t5 ability? RB affecting SC would be another bad balancing decision.

RB was already one of the best TEC abilities. It makes TEC SBs practically unapproachable and now it is getting buffed for absolutely no reason.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting GoaFan77,

reply 25

Quoting Howdidudothat, reply 22I'd like to join the cause to return RB to normal. I never heard of anyone saying RB was weak, so what even started the idea of giving it a buff is beyond me.

I thought it was weak but then I've never seen anyone use it on the edge of a phase lane before (even in the replays of pro games).

That said, they only buffed the range by 1000/2000. Considering the gravity wells in Rebellion are bigger shouldn't that somewhat even out the percentage of the gravity well entrance, compared to Diplomacy? Sure that still leaves the loyalists able to use two starbases but that requires a level 8 tech, so it won't be seen until end game.

And if they do put the range back I think they should keep the strikecraft getting destroyed. If your starbase does get sniped by bombers at the least you should be able to take them all out giving your fleet a window to destroy the carriers without resistance.

What you talkin' about Goa? I've always said that Red Button was retarded strong, and i've said multiple times putting it on the edge of a gravity well was the best way to use it

Successfully updated karma reason!

GoaFan77

Join Date 10/2008

+629

Quoting Mecha-Lenin,

reply 26

By any means, no. Only real way to kill RBed SB is through bomber spam, and losing all SC makes carrier fleet defenseless for several minutes. This is supposed to be game of counters. What is counter to this fairly cheap t5 ability? RB affecting SC would be another bad balancing decision.

So, you didn't lose anything economically, your opponent lost a starbase. I think several minutes of clear skies is the least BRB should do. Worst case scenario is you're forced to withdraw while you're bombers rebuild. If your opponent builds another BRB starbase well you should have had more conventional forces to secure the gravity well.

Quoting MayallCommunion,

reply 27

What you talkin' about Goa? I've always said that Red Button was retarded strong, and i've said multiple times putting it on the edge of a gravity well was the best way to use it

I didn't see anything until that Wail thread that indicated anyone thought red button was OP, which was only a few days before the new patch. So its quite possible the devs didn't realize that use for it either.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting GoaFan77,

reply 28

So, you didn't lose anything economically, your opponent lost a starbase. I think several minutes of clear skies is the least BRB should do. Worst case scenario is you're forced to withdraw while you're bombers rebuild. If your opponent builds another BRB starbase well you should have had more conventional forces to secure the gravity well.

It's usually used in econ player vs econ player fights. Money is not the issue, fleet supply is. You have to use X fleet supply to kill 0 fleet supply SB, while enemy still has X supply fleet to counter your X supply fleet.

But most importantly: bombers are supposed to be THE COUNTER to RB. RB killing SC weakens only real counter. That just doesn't make any sense.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Well I was just playing around I don't really expect you to stalk my posts:p

But here are some where ive hinted toward my hatred for red button.

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/423353

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/423134

https://forums.stardock.com/422889

I wont go any further;P

Successfully updated karma reason!

Pbhead

Join Date 12/2008

+77

I dont really like either the range buff or the damage buff.

Before, incredibly beefy frigs could survive lv 1, but not lv 2...

now nothing survives lv 1.

I do kinda like the strike craft thing though.

Successfully updated karma reason!

SO stupid.... they might as well just create a new Mine unit that costs as much as an RB starbase and detonates at your will.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Humility

Join Date 09/2007

+7

Quoting SteelFin,

reply 24

Probably to counter the vasari starbase moving between grav wells ability. I can't imagine they would change it without a good reason.

You are right, they wouldn't put this without reason, maybe they test out how it's go without vasari in this patch buff, then if not good then they might rework on Vasri, maybe not just a starbase but also Vasri titan as well seem maybe Vasri Titan had a very long weapon range so they buff this to test see how without vasri? Yes, it's make sence, maybe.

Successfully updated karma reason!

GoaFan77

Join Date 10/2008

+629

Okay, someone let me know if I set this up wrong (though I realize I should have built by base a bit closer to the planet), but I decided I'd try to see if a single red button star base really does block the entire phase lane. This is where my fleet arrived at compared to the range of the starbase. Its not a lot of room but with some micro it seems you should be able to get an entire fleet through in few groups without ever getting in range.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting GoaFan77,

reply 34

Okay, someone let me know if I set this up wrong (though I realize I should have built by base a bit closer to the planet), but I decided I'd try to see if a single red button star base really does block the entire phase lane. This is where my fleet arrived at compared to the range of the starbase. Its not a lot of room but with some micro it seems you should be able to get an entire fleet through in few groups without ever getting in range.

Reduced 55%Original 1024 x 529

That particular scenario isn't too bad, but that's a best case. You're looking at what appears to be a Terran planet, with a fairly large gravity well and thus more room to get around things. When dealing with asteroids and the like, that issue matters a bit more. Not to mention that Loyalists can have two of the damn things

Successfully updated karma reason!

would also be helpful to turn on your tactical layout so that we can see where the well edge is. I see the lanes, but the tactical would help

Successfully updated karma reason!

That's particularly large grav well. You only need to SB few choke points, preferably asteroids or moons.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Or use dual SB as loyalist

Successfully updated karma reason!

It would be nice to have official dev response regarding reasons for this buff, and whether it can be rolled back or not.

Successfully updated karma reason!

You pro MP guys do realize that you can always make a "MP Balance Mod" for Sins that has what you guys feel are balanced stats, right? Granted, that's really a last resort if the developers aren't willing to make a balanced game, but the option is always there.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Wow you guys are really freaking out here.

Like GoaFan77 said, gravity wells are larger in rebellion, so they just upped the size a tiny bit to compensate. It's really not that big of a change, percentage wise compared to the original range.

It's not the end of the world.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting Puzzlemaker,

reply 41

Wow you guys are really freaking out here.

Like GoaFan77 said, gravity wells are larger in rebellion, so they just upped the size a tiny bit to compensate. It's really not that big of a change, percentage wise compared to the original range.

It's not the end of the world.

yes its the endo of the world. Gofan picked larget grav , an yet he has enough space for few corvetes, but not enouth to fit a fleet. On smaller grav, ti moon, roid, plasma, et, rb lv2 blocks whole jumpin , 1 sb, not 2.

It is an end of balance , end of fun , end of the world

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting SpardaSon21,

reply 40

You pro MP guys do realize that you can always make a "MP Balance Mod" for Sins that has what you guys feel are balanced stats, right? Granted, that's really a last resort if the developers aren't willing to make a balanced game, but the option is always there.

I think you miss the point of having a multiplayer pro scene. While I understand what you are trying to say mods do not belong in a multiplayer competitive scene.

Successfully updated karma reason!

You say that like Sins has any chance of becoming a professional e-sport game.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting SpardaSon21,

reply 44

You say that like Sins has any chance of becoming a professional e-sport game.

You say that like it does not.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting MayallCommunion,

reply 43

Quoting SpardaSon21, reply 40You pro MP guys do realize that you can always make a "MP Balance Mod" for Sins that has what you guys feel are balanced stats, right? Granted, that's really a last resort if the developers aren't willing to make a balanced game, but the option is always there.

I think you miss the point of having a multiplayer pro scene. While I understand what you are trying to say mods do not belong in a multiplayer competitive scene.

Mayall is right, that said the sp base of this game is many times larger than the mp base is. I am not commenting on the merits of this only bringing it up to remind everyone that balance is needed on both sides of the fence because there are two sides.

Successfully updated karma reason!

My opinion on the great RB is meh, I never used it much before and I don't see that changing. For me the sb's main job is to safeguard my planet since I tend to be an eco player until I arrive, from two directions preferably hehee.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting MayallCommunion,

reply 45

You say that like it does not.

Because it doesn't...

A new update and support via Steam will certainly help things, but for a game released in what, 2008? That should be obvious by now.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Clearly what we need is the kostura disabling SBs and their abilities for 5 minutes...

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting davidabc66,

reply 48

Quoting MayallCommunion, reply 45You say that like it does not.

Because it doesn't...

A new update and support via Steam will certainly help things, but for a game released in what, 2008? That should be obvious by now.

You have a small independent game that had almost no support from a small company, getting support from the valve. This is a HUGE boost, the game is also already getting severely good reviews. You're being cynical there is no reason to say it wont. Just like there is no reason saying it will because we don't read the future. But its always better to stay positive in a situation of uncertainty.

Successfully updated karma reason!