MayallCommunion

Join Date 09/2011

+21

The Superweapon Nerf

Is not that bad as people think it is. They will basically still do the same thing, the nerf really only effected single player. If I ever got Novaliths I almost never got more than 3. Speaking of Novaliths, thats the only actual superweapon thats a problem anyways, that 30 minute debuff is retarded.

Quoting bilun,

reply 30

People keep overlooking that a single novalith can keep it's debuff on 3 planets at a time. 4 novaliths can keep their debuff on 12 planets. That's a tremendous amount of income lost.

It isn't "useless" because you can't keep it up at all timeso n every single planet your opponents control. 12 is more then enough to keep the debuff active on all of a player's major worlds(desert/terran/ice), and likely will blow a few asteroids/moons out of the sky as well.

I hate how some people can't seem to distinguish between "maximal" (read: debuffing or destroying every enemy planet) and "useful".

The first shot of a novalith to a fully populated terran world costs the enemy upwards of 7000 credits over the next half an hour with debuffs alone.

A single cannon can keep it's debuff on 3 planets at a time. If the investment in the novalith doesn't cripple your defenses and you survive the next 15-20 minutes or so it will have already payed back it's cost in economic damage- and everything after that is a net gain.

A limit to how many can be built does not reduce your chance of surviving those 15-20 minutes. It simply reduces the number of time you can make this advantageous long term investment(with a short term risk).

The point is a single novalith has always been a net gain and thus useful(so long as you can survive those key 15-20 minutes). This change just reduces the chance of a game snowballing out of control once the TEC player has already survived planting the first few novaliths and can continue to drop more novaliths for similar long term benefits with drastically reduce short term risks(as the enemy's economy has already been hamstrung so even after the cost of new cannons isn't really putting the TEC player behind in fleet investment).

Yes it is a nerf, but I strongly disagree with those who say the novalith is useless unless spammed. This is only really the case if you're too lazy to use it intelligently, manually ordering each shot to maximize spread of the debuff among key worlds while scouting regularly to keep tarck of which worlds are being economically developed. It's certainly a certainly a nerf for players who relied on just mindlessly bombarding everything rather then choosing high value targets & spreading the debuff around.

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and now they will be still sort of useful, because if it was a smaller time frame you wouldnt be able to cripple your enemies econ.

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Where are the change logs for the superweapon?

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Its actually very bad. 4 means you cant sit behind your SB and Nova your opponent to death, or take over worlds due to culture, or destroy static defenses.

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yeah if limited to 4 they may need to up the effect of the vasarie and the advent.

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Quoting crisaron,

reply 4

yeah if limited to 4 they may need to up the effect of the vasarie and the advent.

think so too.

the limit is not bad at all (i dont like superweapon spam)
but it would be more elegant to build in a slider so that the player can decide how many superweapons would be alowed.
also...if they will be at only 4: buff them,, maybe with more research

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since they limited it the nove and engines need a huge buff and the vasari needs a good buff

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Polistes

Join Date 02/2008

+19

I like the superweapon limit. Four is a reasonable number.

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The Vasari one does not need a buff, the advent one was always in need of a buff, the Nova has needed a nerf.

@John: you kidding, of course you can. In all my time in multiplayer I have never had to build more than 3.

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limiting supers is stupid

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Quoting MayallCommunion,

reply 8

The Vasari one does not need a buff, the advent one was always in need of a buff, the Nova has needed a nerf.

@John: you kidding, of course you can. In all my time in multiplayer I have never had to build more than 3.

Its not. For tec you need to actually have more than 4 for it to be a threat. You will never lose a game to it, and you can sit back and let him fire knowing he only can only make 4. 4 cant even break through a planet with 6k of HP with planetary shields.

The nerf really affected single players, who before rebellion, didnt have to worry about ai's making supers because frankly the devs didnt get the coding right. Now that they have and the ai's have started to use them in mass, people are now crying fowl.

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all super weapons need a buff being limited to 4 period

the vasari needs a good buff

the engine needs a HUGE buff

and the nova needs a huge buff not a nerf

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the ais are doing everything you can do, its your own fault youre losing, no one elses

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Quoting ,

quoting post

You forget what the TEC did to the Advent world that set things in motion for the Advent to come back with a fury. Why is it hard to believe you'd not be able to colonize immediately after a planet buster nuke from hell hits it?

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First off everyone cries about the overpoweredness of superweapons and asks for a limit. Now there is a limit in the game and people start crying that they can't camp behind their well defended frontline anymore and sit out the next of the game. Really people what the hell do you actually want? Is there even fun in camping out the game while spamming Novaliths? I really don't get it. But fine with me, everyone likes something else...

That was of course directed to those that are still not happy with the changes. I personally think the Kostura Cannon is fine the way it is (the Phase Stabilizer Nodes it creates are still great when used for backstabbing the enemy), but the Deliverance Engine still needs to be buffed somehow. The Novalith is fine. Still hate that stupid thing though.

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it was all the noobs who dont know how to handle supers crying overpowered and moaning for the limit

4 kostura can do some damage

4 engines cant do a damn thing

4 nova cant do much

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I'm still trying to figure out why they instituted a flat limit of 4. Let's say I play 1v1 on a 10 planet system. I can have 4 novaliths. Seems excessive. Now let's assume I'm playing 2v2v2 on a 100 planet system. 4 seems inadequate now. I would have preferred a percentage-based solution, configurable number/slider, or just a checkbox to turn super weapons on and off.

I like super weapons. They were abusively bugged in a previous beta iteration. They are not bugged now. I'd be totally fine with identifying which systems have super weapons when construction starts -- for the enemy's benefit.

Oh well. Not my game.

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Volt_Cruelerz

Join Date 06/2008

+115

All this nerf really did was nerf the TEC. Novas can't win you the game and never have been able to. Engines just need some love.

Kosturas though.. As a Vasari player, I can safely say that I don't need more than four. Ever. Yeah, in some 5-7 hour games with hundreds of planets, I'll just start spamming them because I occupy four systems and my enemy has one just because I can, but still.. In any normal game, Kosturas are for strategic attack against undefended worlds.

Basically, what this nerf will do to the weapons is this..

Novalith: super nerf, denying it's ability to spam the enemy and reduce tax income of enemy worlds.
Deliverance Engine: this thing just needs some love, or at least that's what I keep hearing from Advent players. I don't play Advent enough to know how this will impact things.
Kostura Cannon: all this does is make the weapon be used for guerrilla war instead of artillery which was it's intended purpose.

The DE and KC don't need to be artillery. They are tactical weapons to for modifying the field of battle. The Novalith on the other hand doesn't work like that. It is planetary artillery and without masses of it, it's not really going to do anything...

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This is the affect of 4 supers

TEC = NERFED. Not a threat anymore. was heavily used to bring down enemy econ and planets. No so much anymore.

Advent = Sucked as always making 4 is enough so you can sustain the 25% bonus damage when attacking. But rarely used as such.

Vas = Slight nerf. Cant kill all planetary defense but didnt affect the user who used it to sling shot his army from planet to planet.

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Nova: More damage, or even instant death. Cannot colonize for maybe 15 minutes. 1 hour of 75% reduced population, and 50% reduced pop. growth. Tade income: none for 1.5 hours.

Deliverance: 100 culture rate for a good 15 minutes. 100% damage bonus to all friendly's. 80% reduced damage taken.

Kos: Star Base disabled for 5 minutes, Ships disabled for 10 minutes, structures 15, and a blackout for 20. Phase node for 30 minutes.

Just a thought.

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Volt_Cruelerz

Join Date 06/2008

+115

Quoting NR2001,

reply 19

To tell you the truth, I think there should only be 1 superweapon. The 1 superweapon should take a long time to research, and should take a long time to do anything with it. If you do that, then there should be a very, very big buff to all of them.

Nova: More damage, or even instant death. Cannot colonize for maybe 15 minutes. 1 hour of 75% reduced population, and 50% reduced pop. growth. Tade income: none for 1.5 hours.

Deliverance: 100 culture rate for a good 15 minutes. 100% damage bonus to all friendly's. 80% reduced damage taken.

Kos: Star Base disabled for 5 minutes, Ships disabled for 10 minutes, structures 15, and a blackout for 20. Phase node for 30 minutes.

Just a thought.

So.. Titan + Super Superweapon = win? Not a fan.

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Keep in mind I never called for a nerf to superweapons. But everyone complaining about it is getting annoying. It did almost nothing to actually change it. And im speaking from a multiplayer view NOT single player.

Quoting SemazRalan,

reply 13

quoting post
Is not that bad as people think it is. They will basically still do the same thing, the nerf really only effected single player. If I ever got Novaliths I almost never got more than 3. Speaking of Novaliths, thats the only actual superweapon thats a problem anyways, that 30 minute debuff is retarded.

You forget what the TEC did to the Advent world that set things in motion for the Advent to come back with a fury. Why is it hard to believe you'd not be able to colonize immediately after a planet buster nuke from hell hits it?

That debuff only last a minute and 30 seconds I believe? I could be wrong but thats not the point, im talking about the trade/pop reducing effect. It last 30 minutes which is to long of an ability for this game.

Quoting NR2001,

reply 19

That would ruin the game aha.

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Well, I'm disappoitned in the limit. It was, in my opinion, the wrong direction to take. The system the way it was was fine. It needed a little tweaking, but not this yucky limit. Please, DEVs, remove this limit and approach the issue from a different direction..... A higher than original cooldown could help. Giving the pirates some way to counter would address that issue.... I'm sure others can come up with other options that would have been more fun than the limit cap.....

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Again it's not the superweapons at all.

It was the AI's inablity to do anything else but spam the early novaliths of the TEC loyalists.

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4 is perfectly reasonable. Thats the exact number to be a viable threat with any of them. They said they would consider any buffs needed after they see the 3 way (er 6 way now) balance. While a buff to the advent one would be very nice and a buff to the Vasari might be prudent, i will not fret if they don't get one

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Supers where good the way they are. The AI's spammed them cause they could. Saw an AI fire one in about 20 mins.

Nova and vas supers were fine. Advent super needs a buff.

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