Targ Collective

Join Date 09/2006

Map idea - is this possible?

I've had an idea for a map which goes something like this.

Each player starts at the end of a chain of planets leading to the local star (the size of the chain and whether they lead to the same star can be tweaked). The first player who reaches the local star has a small advantage, so that keeps the pressure on.

However - and here we have the twist - every single planet in the chain is heavily populated by Pirates. And also (this is important) the planets themselves become increasingly heavily fortified as you reach the local star.

Is this doable? Has it been done?

Oh, erm, Entrenchment naturally.

modding

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Ryat

Join Date 06/2006

+429

can do 2 of 3, the last bit, while would be totally cool, may not be workable

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GoaFan77

Join Date 10/2008

+629

It most certainly is doable. Some good quality time with the galaxy forge will allow you to do pretty much all of that. You might have to open the map in notepad so you can get your pirate forces to spawn as "Pirate" though.

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May not... Why is this? I'm prepared to compromise and give the planets and fortifications to a neutral faction (can this be done at least?) However there would be ablation over time as the Pirate base (having its own link to the star for balance) would send pirates to the players which would come into conflict with the inhabitants of the planets (which is why my first choice is the pirates).

EDIT: Sorry, it is then. How would I go about doing this? Dabbled in the past but I never managed to put together anything worthwhile.

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Ryat

Join Date 06/2006

+429

You have to use notepad and edit the underling map code

its not hard I did something similar in giving certain planets fortifications (even starbases, though that took a mod). The slowly increasing of militia as you progress (I am assuming adding on in game) while is doable, just not as controlable (maybe on a time setting or something with a special modded ship that calls in reinforcements thru FleetBeacon Ability)

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No, I'm thinking static defences. What part of the map code should I try to edit? Last time I attempted something like this I broke the map.

EDIT: Static defences including ships of course. But once it's there, the ships just wait for the Player to attack. So, the first planet in the chain might have light scouts; by the time the last in the chain is reached there is a huge fleet and massive fortifications (and that's before you see the Pirate base)... Also considering adding a huge pirate fleet to the star itself (last line of defence to the base and all that).

The idea is the Pirates have taken over a system and you have to fight them (and, optionally, other empires) for it.

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GoaFan77

Join Date 10/2008

+629

Alright, first make your planets and disable their default templates. Then, select a planet you want to add defenders too and open the group editor. Make a new group with all of the defenders that you wish (the spawn for owner doesn't matter, you'll change it in a second). Then, open the map and notepad and find the group you made, which should look something like this.

        planetItems
            templateName ""
            subTemplates 0
            groups 1
            group
                condition
                    type "Always"
                    param ""
                owner "NoOwner"
                colonizeChance 0.000000
                items 12
                item "Frigates, Capitalships, static defenses (not starbases), etc."

Make sure you change the NoOwner to Pirate or RandomMilitia, whatever you think works better (it really doens't make much difference). If you want structures to spawn, you must make the planet owned by the Pirates/Milita, so change the colonize chance to 1.000000. Do this for every planet you want forified and it should work. The star works the same way, except you can't colonize stars so you can only spawn ship their.

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Magnificent! One other question. Can I manually add pirate Gauss cannon to these planets?

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Ryat

Join Date 06/2006

+429

Oh, okay, entirely doable

it is at the end of the map code area under templates, remember to keep a running count of how many templates you create.

here is a good template to anazlyze, it is the one that sets up homeworlds
each space in is a tab in notepad

planetItemsTemplate
templateName "Template:DefaultHomePlanetSetup"
subTemplates 0
groups 6
  group
   condition
    type "PlanetOwnerIsRaceNormalStart"
    param "Tech"
   owner "PlanetOwner"
   colonizeChance 1
   items 3
    item "Tech:Module:FrigateFactory"
    item "Tech:Frigate:Constructor"
    item "Tech:Frigate:Constructor"
  group
   condition
    type "PlanetOwnerIsRaceNormalStart"
    param "Psi"
   owner "PlanetOwner"
   colonizeChance 1
   items 3
    item "Psi:Module:FrigateFactory"
    item "Psi:Frigate:Constructor"
    item "Psi:Frigate:Constructor"
  group
   condition
    type "PlanetOwnerIsRaceNormalStart"
    param "Phase"
   owner "PlanetOwner"
   colonizeChance 1
   items 3
    item "Phase:Module:FrigateFactory"
    item "Phase:Frigate:Constructor"
    item "Phase:Frigate:Constructor"
  group
   condition
    type "PlanetOwnerIsRaceQuickStart"
    param "Tech"
   owner "PlanetOwner"
   colonizeChance 1
   items 10
    item "Tech:Module:FrigateFactory"
    item "Tech:Module:CapitalShipFactory"
    item "Tech:Module:MetalExtractor"
    item "Tech:Module:MetalExtractor"
    item "Tech:Module:CrystalExtractor"
    item "Tech:Module:CrystalExtractor"
    item "Tech:Frigate:Constructor"
    item "Tech:Frigate:Constructor"
    item "Tech:Frigate:Scout"
    item "Tech:Frigate:Scout"
  group
   condition
    type "PlanetOwnerIsRaceQuickStart"
    param "Psi"
   owner "PlanetOwner"
   colonizeChance 1
   items 10
    item "Psi:Module:FrigateFactory"
    item "Psi:Module:CapitalShipFactory"
    item "Psi:Module:MetalExtractor"
    item "Psi:Module:MetalExtractor"
    item "Psi:Module:CrystalExtractor"
    item "Psi:Module:CrystalExtractor"
    item "Psi:Frigate:Constructor"
    item "Psi:Frigate:Constructor"
    item "Psi:Frigate:Scout"
    item "Psi:Frigate:Scout"
  group
   condition
    type "PlanetOwnerIsRaceQuickStart"
    param "Phase"
   owner "PlanetOwner"
   colonizeChance 1
   items 10
    item "Phase:Module:FrigateFactory"
    item "Phase:Module:CapitalShipFactory"
    item "Phase:Module:MetalExtractor"
    item "Phase:Module:MetalExtractor"
    item "Phase:Module:CrystalExtractor"
    item "Phase:Module:CrystalExtractor"
    item "Phase:Frigate:Constructor"
    item "Phase:Frigate:Constructor"
    item "Phase:Frigate:Scout"
    item "Phase:Frigate:Scout"

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Ryat

Join Date 06/2006

+429

Quoting Targ Collective,

reply 7

Magnificent! One other question. Can I manually add pirate Gauss cannon to these planets?

yes

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Great - what is the code for that item? In GalaxyForge itself the Pirate gauss cannon is unlisted; I just get the TEC cannon up.

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Ryat

Join Date 06/2006

+429

item "Pirate:Module:GaussDefense"

you can find more in the GalaxyScenarioDef file in the GameInfo file of Sins

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Ahhh. That is valuable information. Thank you so much - one wonders why these items were not added to the editor in the first place.

Okay. I have my first spiral up and ready, just waiting for the detail in the planets. What would be balanced resource distribution? 1:1 ratio of Crystal to Metal? Or should there be more metal than crystal or vice versa?

Thanks for putting up with my incessant questions, by the way.

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Ryat

Join Date 06/2006

+429

I generally do a 1:1 ratio, it gets kinda hard because the number of resources is a bit randomized (though you can fix it but then you end up modding the game info) but it usually works out in the end.

And dont worry about the questions, how else are you going to figure things out?

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True, true. I'm using an equal distribution of lava, ice and terran planets in this early revision and I suppose I can always tweak things later (or possibly manually ensure that the number of mines is balanced if I can figure out how). Getting the first spiral is the trick; the beauty of this kind of symmetrical design is it will always be balanced.

I'm leaning towards a system for each player, purely because it will be easier to organise the layout.

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GoaFan77

Join Date 10/2008

+629

Quoting Targ Collective,

reply 12

Ahhh. That is valuable information. Thank you so much - one wonders why these items were not added to the editor in the first place.

Okay. I have my first spiral up and ready, just waiting for the detail in the planets. What would be balanced resource distribution? 1:1 ratio of Crystal to Metal? Or should there be more metal than crystal or vice versa?

Thanks for putting up with my incessant questions, by the way.

Technically it is impossible to determine the exact value of metal and crystal, as the exact number of resource asteroids is random (as Volcanic can have 2-4 metal, Terran can have up to 2 metal and 2 crystal etc). Crystal is usually a bit rarer than metal, but it really doesn't matter as long as all spirals are the same.

Also, you might want to give each player more than one undefended asteroid, as spiral maps tend to be harder due to the faster decrease of alliegence.

As to why they weren't added to the editor, the item list in them hasn't been updated in a while. I made a fix for it if your interested, but the main change it added was support for all the planet bonuses.

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Ryat

Join Date 06/2006

+429

You can modify the amount of resource asteriods and set it to a set rate, but it requires modifying the GalaxyScenarioDef file.

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targ I usually use random colonisable and also random ice/lava for areas that I want to have high resources in, and I also have created a couple of maps roughly similar to what you wanted with 10 levels of strength ranging from 1 of each frigate +1cap factory,1 frigate factory & 1 gauss at level 1 to 10 of each frigate, all 5 caps 10 gauss 5 hangars,trade port,civ & mil research,refinery. all of this is in one template that I add to each of the planets that I want to have signifficnt defences at, but I usually leave the first few planets at default so the player can build a small empire and be able to afford the extra fleet & cap research that is needed to break out.

in your description I think you will want 30 templates assuming you have 10 planets between the player and his star with each planet getting 1 level tougher.

by the way the level 10 defences CAN be destroyed by about level4 research fleet that is ballanced and on local area attack using fighters & bombers to clear the GW, but the AI has a lot of difficulty breaking out

also you could give each spiral every couple of planets a cluster of several asteroids to help the players

harpo

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If this has already been done, I could learn a great deal from your work Harpo. Could I entice you into providing a link?

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here is a link to my better maps, the closest to your drscription is my megatest, but I should warn you it makes a snail out of a beast computer in that I usually only get screen updates on my q9550 ocd 3.8ghz 8gb ram box everey 2-4 seconds, and lighter maps for ships typically get 20-30 updates per second and lesser computers might update every 10 seconds with either entrenchment of sins WITHOUT mods, and I included my colony templates txt file that I paste into the maps I want my independent colonies on.

harpo

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One idea for this is to double the lines of planets for each person to add a bit more strategy and danger to the players. as the player moves forces up the planets, you leave your other path open for attack from other players.

Something like this

O----O----O----O

O < > S

O----O----O----O

It would make fleet movement more tactical and making reaching the star more important

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Pbhead

Join Date 12/2008

+77

ya, or he could make his own map the way he wants it.

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Hijacking - is there a way to make a map so that if the player's fleet is destroyed completely, they lose the game (via blowing up their remaining planet)?

e: even simpler, is there a way to make it so that for example the destruction of even one ship does this?

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Quoting Pbhead,

reply 21

ya, or he could make his own map the way he wants it.

All i'm saying is that if its only one path, than all you have to do is turtle up and the only thing that with win the game is a MASSIVE late game fleet just to kill a single player, or TEC with multiple Megalith Cannons. The dual paths can help end the game in a human lifetime

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carbon16 that is NOT possible in a map, only in a mod

undeadsoldier the singlepath in singleplayer typically only needs about 3-4 fleet& cap supply research to keep pushing by jump to next planet, kill all there colonise build up fully with defences and repeat as the attack fleet during the pauses in attacking becomes the defence fleet at the single attack point, and for multipath it is a 5 cap fleet per path.

harpo

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I was more thinking along the lines of the map being used in multiplayer. if you're playing AI the single path is fine. But against a human player, the single path would take too long

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