Doubles -- what's the big deal? » Forum Post by Butterchin

Quoting Ender,

[quote who="CelMare" reply="59" id="2328601"]beast stun is not a problem. there are many dgs with stunns. they all can be performed one by one. only snipe and only if there are more than 2 regs and only on the beginning levels.

Beast's stun is actually different than any other stun in the game. It is the only stun that does not give immunity, so you could use 3 beasts and w/e other dg with a stun and have 4 back to back stuns with no breathing room for the victim. Like I said though, I have yet to see a team really exploit this.

what's the problem with that? you can chain any other stun too! saw this several times, done this several times. no difference.

having doubles makes some skills double as good. that's blanaced cause you need TWO demigods.

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what's the problem with that? you can chain any other stun too! saw this several times, done this several times. no difference.

Not true. If a TB hits Deep Freeze an then you Boulder Roll right afterwards the Boulder will not stun, you'll get an "immune" message. I've even had a Boulder fail because it hit a fraction of a second after Pounce.

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since when? i was frozen, boulder rolled, and foul grasp wihtout interruption by premades several times. so i already experienced this. hear for the first time that there is a hidden debuff. never occured for me. allways was able to chain stun or to get chain stunned by different dgs.

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stuns share a DR

you cant stun the same char twice he will be immune (couple of "stun like" effects are out this rule)

how sad is talking about game mechanics with ppl that dont know a shit

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Bear in mind beast's stun isn't just unaffected by stun immunity, it doesn't cause it either. So when I'm with a UB I can use my boulder roll immediately after his stun and it'll stick.
So you could have four UBs for an 8 second stun, but you could also go regular stun > foul grasp > regular stun > foul grasp > reguluar stun.[/quote]

I've never considered that way of using Beast's stun. That's interesting.

Over all, at least in my mind, the only issue with double/triple/etc DGs is the few abilities in the game that break the rules. It's hard to quantify the over all advantantage of stacking these kinds of effects. The only effects, that come to mind, that really break the rules are Reg snipe(most obvious), Beast stun(do to ignoring the stun immunity), Erebus tp(only really relavent on particular maps). I can imagine scenarios where each of these abilities could be exploited if stacked, and being used by a strong team, but I have yet to see any real issues with them other than several games where I have exploited stacked Reg snipe/heaven's against teams that would have likely lost anyway.

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Quoting CelMare,

reply 78

since when? i was frozen, boulder rolled, and foul grasp wihtout interruption by premades several times. so i already experienced this. hear for the first time that there is a hidden debuff. never occured for me. allways was able to chain stun or to get chain stunned by different dgs.

Didn't happen, period. You may have been frozen then grasped then rolled, but the sequence you said doesn't work unless they paused briefly between stuns (stun immunity is very short).

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I used to have an issue with doubles.

Not anymore, though 5 regulus with full snipe *could* be a problem...

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Quoting Obscenitor,

reply 67

I'm super bored so I wanted to point out that there are some abilities which have a unique force multiplier effect when doubled with themselves. Snipe is a good example, but ground Spikes is probably the best one.

Let's say we have a level 10 Sedna with just Nimoth's boosting her armor. She'll be at 1328 armor, which is 34% mitigation, aka she takes 66% damage from autoattacks.

If we hit her with one rank 4 Ground Spikes she'll drop to -172 armor, which is ~-7.4% mitigation, aka a 62% damage taken increase. Not bad.

But if we hit her with a second one we can drop her armor down to -1672 armor, which is -201% mitigation, a full 300% damage taken increase (from autoattacks).

So there's one example of a legit force multiplier from DG stacking... and yet how many people here really care about double QoT? It's preposterous and it shows that people don't really care about balance when it comes to doubles, they care about being spammed with abilities they find annoying.

QoT is the least-played DG. I didn't even know till this post that it has armor reduction. Reg and UB are the most-played. See where the discussion goes? There surely other good combos.

UB: spit (and for some reason no one's mentioned how badly a multi spit can wreck towers, allowing easy map control), grab, slowing (there's only a couple items/skills with which you can hope to get out of their range once they've started hitting you)

Reg: range (wreck towers pretty well without taking ANY damage), snipe, mines

Sedna: Pounce Pounce Heal Heal Pounce Pounce Heal Heal walk out of your base over your dead body. I see this one alot. If they get in range of you, whether or not you have a partner in the lane with you, you're gonna die if they chose the right items

Rook: 2x blink, Boulder Roll, 2x Hammer Slam, 2nd Boulder Roll and slap if needed, towers all over the place to teleport anywhere needed (I haven't seen this, but I think it would be hilarious to gank people like that)

People keep saying double Regs suck, but I think they've been playing against some of the many noobs that don't even watch the DGs in the other lanes to snipe them. Most of the Regs aren't very good, and it's usually GG if one of them is bad.

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QoT is the least-played DG. I didn't even know till this post that it has armor reduction. Reg and UB are the most-played. See where the discussion goes? There surely other good combos.

UB: spit (and for some reason no one's mentioned how badly a multi spit can wreck towers, allowing easy map control), grab, slowing (there's only a couple items/skills with which you can hope to get out of their range once they've started hitting you)

How is this harder to escape than Erebus+UB? Erebus is just as fast as UB and can apply a brief, heavy snare. Also night walkers wreck towers much more reliably than spit.

Reg: range (wreck towers pretty well without taking ANY damage), snipe, mines

Double mines? Sounds great until people start just using potions in your face, that's what I do when there's no interrupt present. Also how are double mines more effective than spit+mines or any other combo?

Sedna: Pounce Pounce Heal Heal Pounce Pounce Heal Heal walk out of your base over your dead body. I see this one alot. If they get in range of you, whether or not you have a partner in the lane with you, you're gonna die if they chose the right items

I'd take Sedna+minion swarm erebus over double sedna any day. Sedna+UB could stomp it too, and I guarantee I'd mop the floor with double sedna as QoT+Rook too.

Rook: 2x blink, Boulder Roll, 2x Hammer Slam, 2nd Boulder Roll and slap if needed, towers all over the place to teleport anywhere needed (I haven't seen this, but I think it would be hilarious to gank people like that)

There's a good reason why you haven't seen it.

People keep saying double Regs suck, but I think they've been playing against some of the many noobs that don't even watch the DGs in the other lanes to snipe them. Most of the Regs aren't very good, and it's usually GG if one of them is bad.

Double reg is annoying until you have priests or monks. After that point it's no better than many other combos.

No one reasonable is arguing that doubles suck, they're arguing that doubles are no better than mixing DGs.

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I once did a tournament game with 2 UB (I was UB) vs 2 regs and honestly we beated the shit out of the reg team, they did double mines/snipes but it didn't stop us (as long as we didn't hump eachother) we just double spit a single target and take him down super fast.

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