paganize

Join Date 01/2008

I hate it that this game is so good.

Background: I just had my 48th birthday. My daughter got me Sins of a Solar Empire; I had mentioned wanting to play it sometime when I had some time off, and she remembered.

I just installed it 12 hours ago, and played for the last 6 or so, after updating it. This is a great game, a fantastic game.

Here's what is wrong with it.

I thought it was a 4X game. game reviewers encouraged me to think this way.

I still play Masters of orion 2. my big thing in games is Turn based strategy; Civilization, MOO1&2, Masters of Magic, Age of Wonders II, various wargames, etc.

I occasionally like other games; baldurs gate, planescape torment, Simcitys, Transport Tycoon, all the paradox games, GTAIII & IV, even the Sims 2.

One genre of games I only VERY occasionally play, however, is RTS. I liked Age of Empires when it came out, starcraft, and still play Empire Earth on occasion, and I'm starting to get into the Total War games. and of course, Homeworld. But I don't play them for long. I get tired of emulating a woodpecker on meth and clicking my mouse madly for hours.

I'm just not seeing a lot of difference between Sins and Homeworld; it's undoubtedly better, like maybe it should be called Homeworld III, but saying it's a 4X? I simply don't get it.

And, since I don't like online gaming, the lack of a solo campaign sort of sucks.

So, after waiting a LONG time so that I would have some serious free time to dedicate to this game that all the reviews said was the greatest thing since sliced bread, and, also, that it was a 4X game, I'm so dissappointed, even though the game is really great, that I doubt I'll be able to play it. I'll have to break out Masters of Orion II again, just to kill the pain.

It's not the games fault. It's mine for not researching better. Maybe, sometime 6 months from now, when I'm in the mood for wearing out my mouse, I'll fire it up, and be able to enjoy it.

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Play mutliplayer it shortens the game by a few hours, mod it for faster income rates, turn up on the difficulty, player a smaller map then

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can i just ask bluntly.... what is the purpose of this thread?

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Quoting TheRezonator,

reply 2

can i just ask bluntly.... what is the purpose of this thread?

2 blunt,

he's expression his idea of the game,

another point of the thread could be why this was called a 4x game (becuase i agree, it isnt)

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but idn, is he saying its a good game, is he saying its not a good game, is he complaining cause its not what he thought, is he complianing its too long, too short, too boring. is he just whining?

i mean, he said it himself, it might just be his own fault for not researching enough... okay, so its not what you thought it would be... im sorry about that, i think its a great game... i just cant see that many people caring that you are dissapointed because you thought this game would be more like Civilisation or any of the other hundreds of games you posted...

Why come here and whine, is what im asking basically.

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Fuzzy Logic

Join Date 05/2002

+493

You can easily mod the game to make it faster etc.

In the Gameplay.constants file you can change research speed, culture speed, ship speed and many other things.

In the (map name).galaxy files you can set your starting values for credits, metal, crystal. If you want a reall big map you can also change the number of planets.

Here's a thought: do all of the above in a huge map, giving yourself loads of resources, set 7 AIs on hard and set them as a team. See if you get bored then

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I think you need to try out the online gaming community for sins. You will find it is a much more rewarding experience than single player and you might change your mind.

ps: the whole point in your thread is contradictorial, but hey, we all have our moments

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contradictorial

lol, and its spasmastic and fantasmagorical too =P

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The thread is titled "I hate it that this game is so good" and then he states that he dosen't like the game. Am I missing something? Is it good or not?

Samurye.

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I'd agree that the game really isn't a 4X game. It's an RTS game that has long game durations. I think the diplomacy expansion, if it's meating enough, might finally put it into the 4X category, but right now it just isn't.

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Yeah, some reviews didn't characterize it well. Still, if you like 4X games I strongly recommend you try out galactic civilizations 2. I generally dislike turn-based games but really enjoyed this one.

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Quoting Nightraid3r,

reply 6

I think you need to try out the online gaming community for sins. You will find it is a much more rewarding experience than single player and you might change your mind.

ps: the whole point in your thread is contradictorial, but hey, we all have our moments

I don't enjoy online RTS gaming, mainly because I don't enjoy RTS games very much. the community isn't really going to matter. I was a Beta tester and hardcore player of "Earth and beyond", Worked on the devlopment of a couple of obscure FRP online games, and have played some TBS games online. so I can't really say I hate all online gaming.

Maybe I didn't phrase things as well as I could have.

Point 1: It's a GREAT freaking game. I'm not saying otherwise. Sins of a Solar Empire is a fantastic game.

Point 2: It was advertised, in part, as a 4X game. it is not a 4X game. At all.

Point 3: I was being critical of the total domination that RTS games seem to have in the marketplace; Sins, which is a great RTS, had a possible passing resemblance to a 4X game, so not only is it partially advertised as one, but I saw countless forum posts in various different places saying that "If you like GalCiv, you'll Love Sins!"; this means that the TBS/4X genre is so dead that people don't even know what it is. Which means that there are gamers out there who haven't played Masters of Orion II, which is Very Sad.

Point 4: I was whining. After a long drought of gaming, I read about this great, well loved game that players are comparing to GalCiv 1&2, and that the is being billed (at least partially) as a 4X.

I can understand the cognitive disconnect most modern gamers will have about this, but I have been playing computer games since 1983; I started hardcore gaming in 1988, because thats when I started having lots of disposable income. MY best gaming experiences were playing Civilization (one), XCOM, Masters of Orion I&II, Gold Box SSI AD&D games, Wing Commander, etc. Before 1998 I could walk into a Gaming store and buy a PC game that wasn't RTS, FPS, a cheapo Tycoon game, or a Sims expansion. I LIKE playing Strategy games, and I would rather play a TBS or a REAL RTS game, like the Paradox games, than any further elaboration or repackaging of C&C or AoE.

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Quoting paganize,

reply 11

Point 4: I was whining. After a long drought of gaming, I read about this great, well loved game that players are comparing to GalCiv 1&2, and that the is being billed (at least partially) as a 4X.

I can understand the cognitive disconnect most modern gamers will have about this, but I have been playing computer games since 1983; I started hardcore gaming in 1988, because thats when I started having lots of disposable income. MY best gaming experiences were playing Civilization (one), XCOM, Masters of Orion I&II, Gold Box SSI AD&D games, Wing Commander, etc. Before 1998 I could walk into a Gaming store and buy a PC game that wasn't RTS, FPS, a cheapo Tycoon game, or a Sims expansion. I LIKE playing Strategy games, and I would rather play a TBS or a REAL RTS game, like the Paradox games, than any further elaboration or repackaging of C&C or AoE.

Have a look over in the elemental forums that is shaping up to be an awesome fantasy TBS made by Stardock (as opposed to being published by them)

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I felt the same way you did and agree with you. Also I never liked rts much until this game. Try out mp and if you can get any good it is extremely fun.I played moo2 and loved it. One of my all time favs. I heavily favor tbs but this game got me hooked. I do wish it was ALOT more like tbs but not much you can do.I have galciv games too.If you like very detailed and involved tbs I recommend space empires 5. It is an incredible tbs game with tons of freedom and design and prolly thousands of research.It has realtime combat. Try it.

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To me it feels like point control rts.

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Oh, if you don't like RTS games then you'll hate Sins. Because it is an RTS.

Samurye.

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I really enjoy this game. Its not really a 4x but it does have some of the 4x elements that makes this game so great. Its nice to finally have a RTS type game thats not just some C&C game with a different name.

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Quoting Fuzzy Logic,

reply 5

You can easily mod the game to make it faster etc.

In the Gameplay.constants file you can change research speed, culture speed, ship speed and many other things.

In the (map name).galaxy files you can set your starting values for credits, metal, crystal. If you want a reall big map you can also change the number of planets.

Here's a thought: do all of the above in a huge map, giving yourself loads of resources, set 7 AIs on hard and set them as a team. See if you get bored then

I speed everything up to maximum and play on the smaller maps (Cynosian Rift is good for this) in single-player. CR is rich enough that I can work my way at least two-thirds to three-fourths up the tree; however, if I screw up researching or try to get overly creative, I'll wind up toasted (and that's playing against an easy opponent).

Once I get comfortable, I'll expand things by going with larger maps and doing some team play (myself and one AI team member against two AI opponents) before settling in for more serious online multiplayer.

Currently, I keep the pirates inactive, because I want to save those for the larger maps (where you won't have the possible issue of the opposition actually teaming up with the pirates).

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That's always been one of the problems with multi-genre games. With Sins I think they did a good job of blending *elements* (not everything!) of RTS and 4X. Although since I love Sins I'm obviously biased.

However a hardcore RTS or 4X player who really doesn't like anything about the other genre and isn't open to new things is not the target audience. Some of them will get ahold of the game one way or another and then express their dislike of the blending, par for the course really.

Pagazine: Yes the reviewers overstated the 4X portion of Sins, it is more of a RTS but that's hardly ICs fault. I'm a huge TBS fan myself, your list of games brought back quite a few memories since I've been playing since mid-80s as well. I've only ever played a couple RTS but Sins did draw me in and has a solid placement in my favourite games list. Since you already own it maybe give it another try, without any expectations other than a quality game.

Also, based on that list of games I would really really recommend picking up a full copy of Stardocks Galactic Civilizations 2 + both expansions if you haven't already. I'd be shocked if you didn't love it - crack with turn button for me anyway. They are also working on a TBS magical theme game that I knew I would buy about half a second after I read that they were making it - a spiritual sequal to MoM basically so real 4X gaming isn't gone yet thank goodness.

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Quoting TheRezonator,

reply 4

it was never called a 4X, it was called a RT4X, i have the box right here with me and it says it on the box. there is a quote from PC Gamer inside the box that says "Sins definitly captures that 'just one more turn!' feling you get from playing Civilisation, but since there are no turns here, it's even harder to find a good place to stop...."

but idn, is he saying its a good game, is he saying its not a good game, is he complaining cause its not what he thought, is he complianing its too long, too short, too boring. is he just whining?

i mean, he said it himself, it might just be his own fault for not researching enough... okay, so its not what you thought it would be... im sorry about that, i think its a great game... i just cant see that many people caring that you are dissapointed because you thought this game would be more like Civilisation or any of the other hundreds of games you posted...

Why come here and whine, is what im asking basically.

Isn't that what you're doing? At least his "whine" was about the game. Do you really think its more worth people's time reading your post than his, when yours is about nothing, and his is actually about the game?

On-topic: to me this game IS a 4x. There is nothing about the idea of a 4x that requires a game to be a TBS. 4x is: "explore expand exploit exterminate", and I'm pretty sure it covers all those bases, I suppose though that this game could definitely be less "combat intensive". The only way to win is by eliminating the enemy, and the colonization/research portion of the game is not all that deep, and the doplomacy portion, while slightly inovative, is also extremely shallow. Anyways, as the other guy said, if you want a TBS 4x game, that is more than just throwing ships at each other, definitely grab GalCiv2. It wont quite live up to MOO2 (nothing will, except maybe Civ4 but that is not sci-fi), but it is still a good fun 4x TBS game.

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id rather not read it fullstop. someone from Stardock said it nicely (forgive the paraphrasing) there's critisising, complaining, and attacking.

this may not be attacking, but its definitly not (constructive) critisism, so basically, he's complaining about something that (unless dimplomacy somehow changes his opinion) cannot be changed

what does he hope to achieve with this post? the name itself is just begging for a fight. he's just lucky that the majority of the community on Impulse is willing to put up with crap like this and still try and change his mind to play Sins.

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It is a 4X game. Play a Multiplayer game that's unlocked. You can deceive your friends!!!

The next Microexpansion is redesigning the 4th part of this RT4X game. The diplomacy will be a real diplomacy instead of a mission drawn option against the AI.

But in reality this is a diplomacy game when the game is unlocked. With receint updates, if you ignore an ally when offered missions at 100% friendship, they'll turn on you once it drops to 69%. You can than bring up the cease fire and trade agreement, but you loose the other bonuses that an alliance offers.

The diplomacy from the Turn based games work of course. I know Blair doesn't want to spill the beans, but they are working on something different to fix the current diplomacy option that will work in the Multiplayer games.

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