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Malekish
Malekish
Join Date 05/2005
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Really disappointed with GPG's attempt at AI

AI Cheating

May 27, 2009 10:12:14 PM from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

I get it, the main purpose of the game is the online PVP.  There is still single-player options and Stardock has such a huge reputation for having efficient AI code.  I'm a huge fan because of how good the AI has always been.

The AI cheats badly in this game, so badly that I derive no enjoyment from playing.  I didn't say I lose (at least not too often) but one of the big bragging points of past games has been 'Our AI doesn't cheat!'.   That is why the blatent and pointless cheating really bothers me so much more.

 

I really hope there's some major AI changes in the work, otherwise I'll seriously concider asking for my money back or just giving it to a friend.  There hasn't been a single game from Stardock that I've ever said that about, that makes me sad.

 

Edit:  To quiet the peanut gallery I've edited the title.

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Malekish
Trigeminal
Join Date 07/2008
+89
Reply #1 May 27, 2009 10:16:07 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

This is imortant and confusing for many, but here goes:

STARDOCK is the PRODUCER, GPG is the DEVELOPER.

GPG does the ai and makes the singleplayer.  If not for stardock there wouldn't even be a single player.

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Malekish
vindKtiv
Join Date 04/2009
+7
Reply #2 May 27, 2009 10:16:38 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums

I get it, the main purpose of the game is the online PVP.  There is still single-player options and Stardock has such a huge reputation for having efficient AI code.  I'm a huge fan because of how good the AI has always been.

The AI cheats badly in this game, so badly that I derive no enjoyment from playing.  I didn't say I lose (but I'll tell you right now, I lose all the time) but one of the big bragging points of past games has been 'Our AI doesn't cheat!'.   That is why the blatent and pointless cheating really bothers me so much more.

 

I really hope there's some major AI changes in the work, otherwise I'll seriously concider asking for my money back or just giving it to a friend.  There hasn't been a single game from Stardock that I've ever said that about, that makes me sad.



iknorite? i meen, i wuz liek, im so dota pro so i shuld be able to pwn rite? but i couldnt even win against cpu so im liek no wai n00b im dota pro so ai hackz!

BTW: the AI doesn't cheat, they just have unfettered access to favor items and will use them with extreme prejudice.

 

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Malekish
Istari
Join Date 05/2001
+20 sdemployee
Reply #3 May 27, 2009 10:18:16 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Demigod is developd by Gas Powered Games. Stardock is the publisher.  The AI, good or bad, was developed by Gas Powered Games.

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Malekish
BigAbboTT
Join Date 01/2009
+8
Reply #4 May 27, 2009 10:20:31 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting vindKtiv,
reply 2

BTW: the AI doesn't cheat, they just have unfettered access to favor items and will use them with extreme prejudice.
 

Actually it does. Read the difficulty level descriptions in-game.

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Malekish
Azrailx
Join Date 02/2008
+28
Reply #5 May 27, 2009 10:24:45 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting ,
quoting post

I get it, the main purpose of the game is the online PVP.  There is still single-player options and Stardock has such a huge reputation for having efficient AI code.  I'm a huge fan because of how good the AI has always been.

The AI cheats badly in this game, so badly that I derive no enjoyment from playing.  I didn't say I lose (at least not too often) but one of the big bragging points of past games has been 'Our AI doesn't cheat!'.   That is why the blatent and pointless cheating really bothers me so much more.

 

I really hope there's some major AI changes in the work, otherwise I'll seriously concider asking for my money back or just giving it to a friend.  There hasn't been a single game from Stardock that I've ever said that about, that makes me sad.

 

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Malekish
Malekish
Join Date 05/2005
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Reply #6 May 27, 2009 10:33:33 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Ok, fine.  I'm really disappointed by GPG for making such bad AI.  I know Stardock was involved with the AI tweaking in Sins and it shows.   The AI here is so poor it shows.

 

BTW: the AI doesn't cheat, they just have unfettered access to favor items and will use them with extreme prejudice.

 

So... they ignore the rules on obtaining items?  And that wouldn't be cheating how?

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Malekish
Sakhari
Join Date 03/2006
+6
Reply #7 May 27, 2009 10:45:17 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums

The AI only cheats on Nightmare difficulty.  The Unfair AI in Sins did, too.

What exactly is the complaint here?  What is it 'about' the cheating that's bugging you?

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Malekish
Frogboy
Join Date 03/2001
+2415 sdemperor
Reply #8 May 27, 2009 10:51:29 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Gas Powered Games is taking AI very seriously.

This evening GPG sent us the latest v1.01 build for testing and it includes, amongst other things:

·         AI

1.    Adjustments to caution and hazard detection and avoidance.

2.    Adjusted health level flee percentage.

3.    Demigods do not use minions when fleeing, may summon minions in combat.

4.    Improved teleportation

5.    Increased Demigod planning frequency

6.    Improved item usage when endangered.

7.    Tower tag improved.

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Malekish
JagerJack
Join Date 04/2009
+26
Reply #9 May 27, 2009 10:53:09 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

I don't understand what you mean by "cheating" either. The nightmare AI gets gold and experience buffs, but that doesn't seem to happen in online play. Are you talking about how the AI seems to have an unlimited number of teleport scrolls and potions?

 

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Malekish
HateForest
Join Date 03/2008
+8
Reply #10 May 27, 2009 10:57:47 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting Frogboy,
reply 8
Gas Powered Games is taking AI very seriously.

This evening GPG sent us the latest v1.01 build for testing and it includes, amongst other things:



·         AI

1.    Adjustments to caution and hazard detection and avoidance.

2.    Adjusted health level flee percentage.

3.    Demigods do not use minions when fleeing, may summon minions in combat.

4.    Improved teleportation

5.    Increased Demigod planning frequency

6.    Improved item usage when endangered.

7.    Tower tag improved.

 

As awesome as this news is I'd rather see no AI in multiplayer games and a drop balance mechanism such as a handicap for the advantaged team.

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Malekish
tperge
Join Date 05/2009
+4
Reply #11 May 27, 2009 10:58:32 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting Frogboy,
reply 8
Gas Powered Games is taking AI very seriously.

This evening GPG sent us the latest v1.01 build for testing and it includes, amongst other things:


·         AI

1.    Adjustments to caution and hazard detection and avoidance.

2.    Adjusted health level flee percentage.

3.    Demigods do not use minions when fleeing, may summon minions in combat.

4.    Improved teleportation

5.    Increased Demigod planning frequency

6.    Improved item usage when endangered.

7.    Tower tag improved.


 

Thank god, an improved Ai whould be grea for MP.  One of the biggest issues with AI in multiplayer is that it acts like a depresed emo kid.

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Malekish
CitizenKane2
Join Date 04/2009
+3
Reply #12 May 27, 2009 11:48:45 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting Frogboy,
reply 8
Gas Powered Games is taking AI very seriously.

This evening GPG sent us the latest v1.01 build for testing and it includes, amongst other things:


·         AI

1.    Adjustments to caution and hazard detection and avoidance.

2.    Adjusted health level flee percentage.

3.    Demigods do not use minions when fleeing, may summon minions in combat.

4.    Improved teleportation

5.    Increased Demigod planning frequency

6.    Improved item usage when endangered.

7.    Tower tag improved.


This is good news. It will be interesting to see how this pans out. Perhaps more details can be given on what are the differences between the various levels of difficulties with patch 1.01 (i.e. "easy", "normal", "hard") etc - particularly in relation to AI access to favor items in single player games.

 

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Malekish
BigAbboTT
Join Date 01/2009
+8
Reply #13 May 28, 2009 12:14:43 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

I am sorry. I said before that the difficulty descriptions are in-game. They are not. They are listed in the game manual.

Quoting JagerJack,
reply 9
I don't understand what you mean by "cheating" either.

It's something that is common to many game AIs. The computer is given a material advantage over the human players to make up for the defficiencies in the AI itself. I am not trying to imply that Demigod's AI is all that poor. We're just comparing the power of the human brain and thousands of years of evolution versus the power of a little chip that adds up ones and zeros.

Quoting JagerJack,
reply 9
The nightmare AI gets gold and experience buffs.

So... It cheats.

Quoting JagerJack,
reply 9
but that doesn't seem to happen in online play.

Really? That is interesting to know. I have never played a multiplayer game with nightmare difficulty bots so I wouldnt know. The OP is talking about single player games, though.

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Malekish
BigAbboTT
Join Date 01/2009
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Reply #14 May 28, 2009 12:17:23 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting CitizenKane2,
reply 12
Perhaps more details can be given on what are the differences between the various levels of difficulties with patch 1.01 (i.e. "easy", "normal", "hard") etc - particularly in relation to AI access to favor items in single player games.

Yeah... there isn't much detail out there as far as I know. Apart from the little blurb in the manual. Page 14. Who knows how accurate that is though.

 

Double post for great justice.

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Malekish
JagerJack
Join Date 04/2009
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Reply #15 May 28, 2009 12:32:17 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting BigAbboTT,
reply 13


The nightmare AI gets gold and experience buffs.

So... It cheats.

I'm not completely sure I call that cheating, so much as leveling the playing field, but alright then.

Quoting BigAbboTT,
reply 13

but that doesn't seem to happen in online play.

Really? That is interesting to know. I have never played a multiplayer game with nightmare difficulty bots so I wouldnt know. The OP is talking about single player games, though.

I know, and if that's the case, you could always turn down the AI difficulty to hard. They provide a decent challenge without being over the top. I just don't see the problem here. Only the nightmare AI "cheats", so just play on hard instead. Problem solved.

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