Heaven's Wrath » Forum Post by DeadMG

I just fought in a Pantheon game where My oppoenent was using Heaven's Wrath. We got destroyed! And he even got stuck with an AI player. Heaven's Warth gave him a huge lead in levels by the end of the match. He used it to farm creeps on opposet sides of the map. With his surplus of gold he was able to out gear us very early and we couldn't compete with him 1v1 any more.

Plus there really isn't a "counter" for it. Playing conservitive while using this to farm creeps in other lanes means you are doubling yoru income.

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wat i want, is a change to redundant items and equips.

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Quoting germ0nik,

reply 25

Obviously you need a voice chat option to organize this, but in my opinion, for winning early encounters decisvely, there is no superior item.

Or you can just press 'p' to signal your mates on where to boom. No voice chat necessary, though obviously needs a bit of team play. Not a lot, mind you - this would be simple enough to agree on in the chat before a game though naturally cluing in your opponents on this might convince them to find another, more enjoyable game.

EDIT: I just wanted to add I am also of the opinion that this item may be a bit too strong with well-organized teams. Particularly in 3v3+ you can do an instant 750 or 1000 damage straight on from level 1, anywhere on the map.

YES! I agree with this a lot. Add in a Snipe Reg and the first levels are pure nightmare for your opponents.

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Quoting ,

quoting post

This item sucks. It can only kill creeps, and the only beenfit it has over normal attack is range, but you don't get XP/gold for the kills, so there's no value to it at all. You can't even kill general minions with it, the best use I can think of. The damage badly needs increase or the CD decrease.

Wrong. This is a superb weapon that helps you level super fast in early game.

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Triple Assasins have weaknesses, and this can be countered with hp-builds, sedna/qot/erebus+@ can beat you. I've seen it happen. Also 3x this favor is overkill on small maps such as Cataract/Prison.

Reg and TB will both have low hp with they get this instead of Blood of the Fallen.

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3 gens almost never happen and a sedna and qot is almost as unlikely

rge and tb have fine hp

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If my teammate takes Heaven's Wrath and uses it to farm two lanes, it really pisses me off. When you do this, you often deny your teammates the gold (and sometimes the xp as well) that they would normally be getting for holding their lane. You're basically hurting your teammates to help yourslef, and IMO it's a totaly selfish dick thing to do to your teammates. This is, after all, supposed to be a team game, not a "look at me, I am teh pwnz!" game. But I'm sure the people that do it, really couldn't care less if they make their own teammates mad.

Koz

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Quoting Koz1120,

reply 7

If my teammate takes Heaven's Wrath and uses it to farm two lanes, it really pisses me off. When you do this, you often deny your teammates the gold (and sometimes the xp as well) that they would normally be getting for holding their lane. You're basically hurting your teammates to help yourslef, and IMO it's a totaly selfish dick thing to do to your teammates. This is, after all, supposed to be a team game, not a "look at me, I am teh pwnz!" game. But I'm sure the people that do it, really couldn't care less if they make their own teammates mad.

Koz

How is buying equipment for yourself instead of citadel upgrades any different, it's still "hurting your teammates to help yourself".

By the way I'm pretty sure if you are near the creeps when your ally nukes them you still get EXP and gold? It'd be nice if someone could confirm this because I usually wait for the wave in the other lane to reach an ally.

Also I think the item needs a limit enforced in the game, of one or two per-team, with a Regulus and 3 or 4 organised wraths the other team wont be able to let their HP drop below 1500.

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so illegal ur saying if your whole team buys citadel upgrades and no player items ull win yh sure and pigs eat cows

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This is a great item when the map is too big for you. Like 1vs1 on Exile.

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Quoting si1foo,

reply 9

so illegal ur saying if your whole team buys citadel upgrades and no player items ull win yh sure and pigs eat cows

That's not what he said at all.

Dustbin: if the creep dies nearby, you get the XP regardless of whether you touched it or not. If you get the last hit you get the gold, no matter where you are. If you do 25% or more damage, you get to share the gold as long as you are nearby.

Also, I'm not convinced having multiple Wraths on a team is OP at all, considering only assassins can carry it. It's funny to do once or twice against a noob team but not really viable against people who are decent enough to have even a single priest tag along with them.

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Quoting _Shadow,

reply 11

Quoting si1foo, reply 9so illegal ur saying if your whole team buys citadel upgrades and no player items ull win yh sure and pigs eat cows
That's not what he said at all.

Dustbin: if the creep dies nearby, you get the XP regardless of whether you touched it or not. If you get the last hit you get the gold, no matter where you are. If you do 25% or more damage, you get to share the gold as long as you are nearby.

Also, I'm not convinced having multiple Wraths on a team is OP at all, considering only assassins can carry it. It's funny to do once or twice against a noob team but not really viable against people who are decent enough to have even a single priest tag along with them.

There is no gurantee that a priest is going to heal you at a certain HP level or a certain time.

The real power is in how decisively it changes early encounters, not in your guranteed kills. Before you have your decent +HP pool against a team like this, you need to back off at about 1000 HP at the absolute least. This item is absolutely amazing for getting early flag locks up via the power of that simple tactic.

What I am saying is that, yes, you will only kill people being overly-risky with it, but it forces their entire team into an extremely conservative playstyle for the first few levels, while you are free to farm lanes and lock flags early.

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Quoting germ0nik,

reply 12

The real power is in how decisively it changes early encounters, not in your guranteed kills. Before you have your decent +HP pool against a team like this, you need to back off at about 1000 HP at the absolute least. This item is absolutely amazing for getting early flag locks up via the power of that simple tactic.

What I am saying is that, yes, you will only kill people being overly-risky with it, but it forces their entire team into an extremely conservative playstyle for the first few levels, while you are free to farm lanes and lock flags early.

I would suggest before you theory craft any further you host a custom game against a team of good players (let's say grab three from DGL) and try your triple Heaven's Wrath strategy. There's nothing conservative about choosing Blood of the Fallen, having an extra 800HP with 300HP/min and laughing at an assassin only team with their extra 750 damage per 30-45 seconds ability. It's going to be you who is pushed out of the lanes.

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Quoting IllegalDustbin,

reply 8

How is buying equipment for yourself instead of citadel upgrades any different, it's still "hurting your teammates to help yourself".

By the way I'm pretty sure if you are near the creeps when your ally nukes them you still get EXP and gold? It'd be nice if someone could confirm this because I usually wait for the wave in the other lane to reach an ally.

Also I think the item needs a limit enforced in the game, of one or two per-team, with a Regulus and 3 or 4 organised wraths the other team wont be able to let their HP drop below 1500.

Uh, yes, if all you do is buy items for yourself and do not help upgrade the cit you are hurting your teammates to help yourself. What's your point?

You can get XP if you are close from a teammates Heaven's Wrath strike but not the gold unless you did at least 25% damage (which you probably won't get). Unfortunately what I often see teammates do is blast the creeps while they are passing by one of the enemy towers so they can damage the tower too and I tend to get very little XP off of that tactic. So, while my teammate is running around playing Demigod as a solo game, I'm low on XP and gold and a couple levels behind the enemy DG's and they end up overpowering us because my teammate can't 1v3 the enemy team.

Bottom line is that hoarding all of the creep kills is a very bad strat in a team game, even if doing so makes you feel all badass.

Koz

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