no - the torchbearer is not overpowered at all. He's powerful against creeps with his AoE spells, but has limited damage capability against other demigods. The deep freeze debuff is a great spell, but it doesn't do any damage. TB only has one direct damage single target ability - fireball. Compare this to UB, which can acid spit and health drain an enemy in about three seconds, doing about 2000 damage.

To prove this, play against a TB AI, and you'll see he'll probably score far more assists than kills.

granted I've only played against AI opponents, but still, TB is pretty fragile and doesn't do a whole lot of damage. Teamed up with a rook or UB he would be excellent, but that's not unbalanced, that's just teamwork.

I still find UB and Rook to be more powerful than the TB

TB with fire aura is the strongest hero currently I think even stronger than UB, at least before UB gets level 15 and  especially if you play 3vs3 and have an ally on the same lane. UB can't really do much against TB because TB with fireaura has enough speed to fire and move away without getting hit.

the +75 Damage you get from switching from fire to ice is insane early game - if both demigods are level 15 and have the same money UB might be indeed stronger but usually you will have more money and/or xp at this point in the game.

the ice build is a bit weaker I think (and extremely annoying to play against, a permanent slow because of a slow aura is no fun and the new deep freeze is more annoying than the stun had been)

Playing as a direct-damage UB I haven't yet lost a game 1 v 1 against Torchbearer.  TB might get a couple of kills in up to level 10, but UB levels more quickly and does alot more damage at high levels.  If TB is sniping I usually just avoid him and teleport-ambush for the two-hit kill when he messes with my buildings.  TB can't do the same to me when I start destroying his towers, and late game his stronghold goes down in less than a minute.

Wagnard - you might have problems because of the way you are speccing.  What skills are you focusing on?

I'm not playing against AI, I'm playing against good players online, Saturday and Sunday mornings (EST). 

Really?  As Unclean Beast I'm not going to beat a spellcaster 1 v 1 using Ooze and Plague and Spit, although all of those abilities can be really useful against creeps, in team play, or against different demigods.  I don't think speccing straight damage is good for every situation, but certainly for this one. 

Regulus has come into his own as a minelayer (if at the expense of his most effective build in 1.0) but UB shouldn't lose to him either, 1 v 1. 

Frankly at this point in a 1 v 1 game I'd take UB over any other Demigod available, and I'm happy to test that out with anyone who wants to

my UB recipe against Torch goes something like this - I've left out artifacts since they are broken

Max out Bestial Wrath, Inner Beast, and Stats in that order, and don't forget Foul Grasp.  Don't put points in anything else, because you don't need them.  

Wrath should let you farm creeps better than TB, even if he can hurt you better early.  That's ok, you won't kill him much (unless he sucks) before level 10, so just keep farming and don't get greedy.  You should be at least one level ahead of him when you reach level ten.  This is where you can two-hit him if he gets too close, basically Foul Grasp and then Wrath to catch up when he runs.

UB's melee is buggy.  He won't auto-attack anything that isn't touching him.  So the trick when you are chasing someone is to Wrath up and use your superior speed to run past your opponent and stop in his path of retreat.  You will get three or four good hits in while he is passing you, which should be all you need.  *Don't go to where your opponent is, go to where he will be*

If your enemy is smart he'll retreat to behind his towers before you can catch him.  That's OK too, because it lets you use Wrath to really wreck those towers.   TB will keep harassing you, but don't chase him, put as much damage into a tower as you can and back up to lick your wounds as necessary, if he gets too close you can always Grasp him for more life.  Eventually your enemy will run out of towers to hide behind, and it's gg. 

If he tries the same thing on you by attacking your towers just port to the tower and kill him. 

If you do this right you should be able to take down all his defense and allow him none of yours, while keeping up a lead on xp and gold. 

Flags should be even until level 10 or so, at which point you should start owning all of them.  UB has an advantage here, because he can sit on a flag and TB has to stay out of his range, can't contest even with stuns.  

Useful Items in order of buying: attack speed gloves, cooldown reduction helm, Nature's Fury Ring, most expensive boots, most expensive armor, Allfather's ring

Endgame direct-damage Beast is hitting really hard and really fast, and just won't die.  I haven't really been paying attention to stats, but I have seen some 3000 hp hits while in Wrath.

I'll usually play Sat and Sun 10am - 2pm EST on LANs -

demigod for noobs // do it

Slyboots // Slyboots

Thanks a lot for your timee for writing this.

I think my problem where mostly with the buggy melee attack. I wasnt able to score a hit on Tb while he keep freezing/slowing me to the ground...

Ill probably play less Beta 1-a for now. since too many bugs. And from what I saw, most of them seems reported.

All hail Beta 2

The problem with TB at the moment is that after lvl 10 he doesnt have enough health to live and his dbs doesnt even compare to any of the other heroes. He's still useful but he's more for support after lvl 10. Wagnards DPS build is essentially the same as mine, but i actually think it isnt as good vs TB as the nuking builds because you can almost bring a TB to 0 hp with one nuke. The nuke builds are useless vs rook and other UB's though so don't go it in any game with either of them.

Of course it doesn't. This isn't even the balancing pass.

high cd skills are stupid and bad for gameplay.

ya, but thats a ot of time watching your demigod smack things... with your thumb up ur ass

what he said. Shorter cool downs = more intense gameplay, which is what GPG/Stardock are aiming for

Im just against a game that will be a "stun game".

Sometimes it feels like if your slowed down or stunned, your dead...

Anyway this is just the engine test so i guess we should not talk to much about balance right now.

On 1vs1 there may be some balance issue but when we r 2vs2 or 3vs3 or even more, I think anything is possible.