Way too biased?

Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2416

If you start a game and check the exit polls it's pretty even.

Incidentally, no, 70% of Americans are not in favor of pulling out of Iraq. The issue ratings in the game are purely based on existing polls and exit polling.

The game is not biased in favor of either party.

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As I play more, I definitely see the balance. Much more realistic than PM1. Love it so far. However, it is crashing a lot. And sorry, the CBS poll I was thinking of is 62%. Can't seem to find a poll just asking independents, but I am guessing you have plenty. Thanks for the hard work, I've loved Stardock games since 2003 with GalCiv.

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The first one was biased too, the programmers are obviously right-wingers, just look at the statistics they gave to the candidates. Oh well, at least they allowed you to create new characters with the same names and give them more realistic statistics.

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Incidentally, no, 70% of Americans are not in favor of pulling out of Iraq. The issue ratings in the game are purely based on existing polls and exit polling.
The game is not biased in favor of either party.

Ahh, a perfect Bushian response. But we all know that facts are stubborn things and have a liberal bias to boot. Polls consistently show a large majority (generally around 60% or so and clearly not even) favoring various fairly short term withdrawal time tables (roughly immediate to two years). So I think the OP's objection is spot on. As a political junkie, I was considering purchasing this, but as a Democrat, I will probably pass.

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I've found that coming out against the war in Iraq improves me in blue states and hurts me in red states. I'd say that's pretty realistic, no?

But yea, I definitely think independents should at the most be neutral towards withdrawal, to say they are slightly against it is flat out wrong.

-Trey

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hey guys, read the description -- this is a STRATEGY game, NOT a SIMULATION.

do you honestly think they could get everything perfect to how you see it? no, they cant b/c politics includes opinions.

its a good game.

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If the game is anything near as moddable as 2004, it should be quite easy to make the independents think whatever you want them to think

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timothy, are you saying that you are gonna try and exploit and manipulate the minds of middle class America? *GASP*

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Playing as a politician must be beginning to rub off on me

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mormegil

Join Date 03/2001

+74

The Problem with making a game based on real data is that we end up unbalanced statistics. I know people are saying the game leans right, but the truth is that because we use real world data, the game is actually biased to the Democrats.

At the moment is much easier to win on normal difficulty or above as a Demarcate. It is much more difficult to win as a Republican.

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The Problem with making a game based on real data is that we end up unbalanced statistics. I know people are saying the game leans right, but the truth is that because we use real world data, the game is actually biased to the Democrats. At the moment is much easier to win on normal difficulty or above as a Demarcate. It is much more difficult to win as a Republican.

Actually, you're right. Except McCain, he always seems to have a huge lead in the games I have started. Either way, the game crashes too much to finish

But the game definitely feels more realistic than the original, and is very fun.

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mormegil

Join Date 03/2001

+74

Have you reported your crash? I have not had a crash on any of my machines for months? What is happening when it crashes?

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Yes, I have in another thread (thcrash one). I am attempting to update my drivers on my work laptop now. However, it's done it several times on my fresh copy of Vista on my Macbook. I know those drivers are up to date. I will report those crashes as well when I am home. I know Stardock will take them and fix them. I was lucky with all the GalCiv's so I guess it's my turn for problems.

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2416

Ahh, a perfect Bushian response. But we all know that facts are stubborn things and have a liberal bias to boot. Polls consistently show a large majority (generally around 60% or so and clearly not even) favoring various fairly short term withdrawal time tables (roughly immediate to two years). So I think the OP's objection is spot on. As a political junkie, I was considering purchasing this, but as a Democrat, I will probably pass.

If you can provide a link to a major poll that shows that 70% (or even 60%) want an immediate (or in the next couple months) withdrawal from Iraq we'll happily update the game. We have no ideological axe to grind.

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2416

Actually, you're right. Except McCain, he always seems to have a huge lead in the games I have started. Either way, the game crashes too much to finish But the game definitely feels more realistic than the original, and is very fun.

McCain is very difficult to win with. I can't beat Obama on hard with McCain and I wrote the AI.

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If you can provide a link to a major poll that shows that 70% (or even 60%) want an immediate (or in the next couple months) withdrawal from Iraq we'll happily update the game. We have no ideological axe to grind.

First, you (deliberately?) misquote me--I said majorities supported a withdrawal timeline roughly between immediate and two years (though I personanlly incline to the former). In any case, here ya go, took 30 seconds on Google.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/the_war_in_iraq/iraq_troop_withdrawal

This is a a recent poll by Rasmussen, a major polling organization, that finds 59% support withdrawal within a year, actually down from earlier polls.

Since my earlier post, i have purchased the game and even a cursory look revealed a couple of things. One, it looks to be an interesting game. Two, much in the candidate stats seems to follow wingnut talking points. I was particularly amused to see that Gore and Kerry, candidates that received very negative coverage from the MSM (Gore was particularly despised) have significantly higher press bias ratings than John McCain, whom the press adores.

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Full disclosure: I'm a Democrat, but the only thing I have found to be questionable thus far was the Iraq withdrawal numbers, as previously mentioned. But this can easily be argued either way:

1. On whether to withdraw: the public would seem to support this based upon most polling data.
2. On whether to quickly withdraw: I believe the polling data on this has been roughly even.

I think it really depends on what the creators of the game envisioned with the position "withdraw from Iraq."

Also, I find no convincing evidence that this game is biased one way or another. I just think that they probably got it wrong or used poor phrasing.

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Beaux,

Yes, I concur with your two points. Either way, independents favor withdrawal generally I'd say.

Marlowe,

Thanks for that poll. There was also a CBS one where 61% said within a year as well. Thanks for reinforcing that. The press certainly adores McCain, he is treated as some of god to them. He should have a 10 there for sure. Remember he even said "the press is my base".

Overall, I don't think the game producers are being biased now that I have played the game. I am sure things will change. Don't let it stop you from buying the game! Excellent value for $20.

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2416

Btw....Withdrawing from Iraq is also favored by independents...not just Democrats (70% of the entire US Population)...yet it is a losing issue for Democrats in this game?

THAT is what you wrote.

Now you claimj 59% support withdrawing within a year you say.

In the game, it's modeled that Democrats very much want to withdraw from iraq. Republicans don't want to but don't feel as strongly, and independents are basically neutral (i.e. -5 to -8 on a scale from 100 to -100).

Democrats represent (in the game) 40%. Republicans are 30% and Independents are 30%.

59% would be Democrast (40%) and Independents (19%). So you quibblign that instead of 19% of independents favoring withdrawing from Iraq that we have it at 14%.

As for McCain, we gave him a 6 out fo 10 for Media Bias. Obama an 8 out of 10. And Bill Clinton a 5 out of 10. Are you seriously trying to argue that we have McCain too low?

As for Al Gore, we aren't simulating the election of 2000. We are discussing Al "Inconvenient Truth, Novel Peace Prize" Gore of today who is extremely popular with the press.

AND, btw, media bias gives a player an ADVANTAGE. So on the one hand, you're arguing that the game's biased against Democrats but on the other complaining that some of the stats are too much in favor of Democrats.

If you want to look for bias I'm sure you'll find it. The more ideological someone is, the more prone to jumping at conspiracy they are. Most of the stats in this game were put in by people who could care less about politics. The typical political junkie is not a C++ developer.

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Game seems very well balanced to me. I don't think pulling out of Iraq is something the democrats want to talk about in the election much, and the game reflects that. Great for the base, not so much with others.

I do think the issues ratings on the candidates could use a little work, and it look as though there may be a few minor bugs (but that is well above average for games these days, many of which are almost unplayable at release). Must say I have spent two years waiting for this and was not disappointed, plus the missus loves it too!

If only there were hot seat play, I know this could be a really popular couples game.

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I don't think the game is bias. MAYBE the withdrawal numbers could use a bit of tweaking for independents, but when you consider that it's the only thing able to complain about I think stardock did a great job keeping any ideological inclination away from the game. For example, if you look at Barack Obama's stats they are quite high. If a programmer was right-wing and had no misgivings putting that into the game, Barack Obama's credibility and other stats would be lower I think.

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Way too biased?

Can a Democrat even win?