Whitecloak

Join Date 06/2006

I'm just not getting it!

I'm pretty new to the whole 4X gameplay style. The first game I played was the recent Civ 4. I really got into that game, but what killed it for me was the AI. I mostly play solo, and the AI was just not believable. So, when I learned of this game, and how much importance was placed on the AI I thought it sounded promising.
Well, I've had GalCiv 2 for a week now, and I'm kind of frustrated. I don't generally think of myself as a stupid person, and yeah, I've read the game manual...and also reviewed almost all the demo videos. The thing is, I just don't get this game! I'm not asking for some kind of "build order", I know every game is different. I wish there was some kind of sample game I could watch.
I have no idea how many factories I should have on a planet, I have no idea what to do with with small planets...how much value is placed on your people being happy? How high should my taxes be? Should my resources always be on 100%? Why are the tech descriptions so vague? Why is the first hour of the game so slow and boring, what am I doing wrong? How many buildings should I outright buy instead of build...how fast should I expand? One planet or rush for four???
I dunno, Civ 4 was so easy to pick up, it was intuitive. Galciv2 is the opposite, even after understanding how individual parts of the game work, I can't seem to grasp as a whole how the game operates. My usual game is to just build stuff, research stuff, colonize new planets and build more stuff, and then, after NOTHING has happened after an hour or more of playing, shut off the game bored to death! But...I want to understand the game, I sense the potential.

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The tutorial is sort of a "watch it" -- and the 1.2 patch has a theme / tech tree (addition - not the real game) of its own. Have you tried those?

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https://www.galciv2.com/gameplayex.aspx

The Databank list from the main page leads to all kinds of informative stuff. I found the gameplay walkthroughs to be very very helpful. Check them out and i bet you will be having fun in no time.

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Play on tough, so you can see the AI build up, and watch your ego shatter.

But seriously, tough is great for learning the mechanics. First you get slaughtered, then you learn to defend yourself, and then you learn to adapt and understand the mechanics. Took me about 4 days originally, and after that I could play tough no problem.

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Try http://db.gamefaqs.com/computer/doswin/file/galactic_civilizations_ii_dl.txt

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honestly, a lot of the game is like that, for the first 5 or 10 or 20 games haha, just trying different things until you find a balance of everything that suits your style, and works well. start on easy ai, find something that works, and just give and take, and see what works the best. then after you've had fun stomping the ai on the easiest levels, move up a level, and start over, and readapt how you play its a learning experience. believe me starting out you WILL suck, its almost certain. but as you see how the ai does it, you'll get the feel of what to do. and there is a beginners guide around somewhere, check out the wiki maybe, other then that, just have fun.

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Small Planets are usful for cash and reserch build markets and reserch centers on them class 10 and up are your space ship planets

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It's also a good idea to have certain planets as "Capitals", be it Production, Research, or Economic. If you are fortuitous enough to nab a class 26 world around a purple star, you should make that your Manufacturing capital and have the associated structure as well as a crap load of factories. Have two or three farms on that world though, for the increased population will increase production and give you a huge army to work with when you build transports from that world. If you get another class 26, that one should be Research, again with farms to increase manpower. And last one for the Economic capital for big big money. Don't forget to have Economic Starbases near the capitals loaded up with the production and trade components.

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If you are new to the 4x genre... then learning the "space" side of things is very different from the "Civ" side. If you played games like Masters of Orion, then GalCiv2 is rather intuitive also.

Some basics though that have done me well through tough and beyond...

1) ALWAYS expand fast. Fact is that planetary combat is going to be a few turns off when you start a game, so the first battle is getting planets first. That means that you need to research engines asap... so that your colony ships are faster than the NPCs. (or the same speed more realistically)

2) Set your flagship to Auto Survey immediately and pray that you get some cash inflow from it.

3) Use your money to buy ships. Only buy 1 factory on your home planet (to get things rolling) and then perhaps 1 factory on one of the first planets you colonize that has a production bonus tile. In the end you will see a LOT more benefit from buying 3-4 colony ships rather than 7-8 factories.

4) Infrastructure is god. Perhaps it will not be this way when I push the AI up even further, but I have found that almost nothing beats a good economy and production. That means you need to constantly be upgrading your Factories and Research lines. I kind of use my home planet as a key here... I always want it upgrading something. So, if it is not building anything, then I know I am falling behind on either factory or research tech lines.

5) I keep morale at 50% or higher. So, tax your people all you can to do that. I build morale boosters on almost every planet, trade centers as well, and always a farm. Then push your production level as high as you can before you start losing money.

6) I have 2 basic settings for my domestic spending... 40/20/40 for wartime (that is military/social/research), and 20/40/40 for peace time. Seems to work pretty well. But, I like the balanced play style, it might not suit you.

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3) Use your money to buy ships. Only buy 1 factory on your home planet (to get things rolling) and then perhaps 1 factory on one of the first planets you colonize that has a production bonus tile. In the end you will see a LOT more benefit from buying 3-4 colony ships rather than 7-8 factories.

Not always true. For maps with more numerous planets, it's both cheaper and faster to buy factories while building ships than it is to buy ships and build factories.

5) I keep morale at 50% or higher. So, tax your people all you can to do that. I build morale boosters on almost every planet, trade centers as well, and always a farm. Then push your production level as high as you can before you start losing money.

That's spot-on in the later parts of the game, but in the early parts of the game you ought to keep morale at 75% minimum for as long as you can. In fact, I'd recommend rush-buying Entertainment Networks on your first few planets (instead of factories) and dropping your taxes low enough to get 100% approval. Jack your spending all the way up and run like this until you go flat broke, and pray for expensive anomalies (I always set anomalies to abundant--it helps the AI too, so difficulty isn't changed, but it makes the game much less tedious). It may seem like you're wasting money, but by keeping your morale up you're quite literally buying population (which makes you much richer in the future).

6) I have 2 basic settings for my domestic spending... 40/20/40 for wartime (that is military/social/research), and 20/40/40 for peace time. Seems to work pretty well. But, I like the balanced play style, it might not suit you.

I would generally suggest putting massive resources into research, at least 60% during peace and at least 40% during war (and I usually have even more than that). Everything in the game is based on reasearch. Nothing works properly without you researching it well first, NOTHING. In fact, I've been playing my games with at least 90% research production during peace and 99% during war. I just focus my NLC's into social or military as need arises.

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But seriously, tough is great for learning the mechanics. First you get slaughtered, then you learn to defend yourself, and then you learn to adapt and understand the mechanics.

I started out playing my first 5 games on "easy." I won all 5, most of them without a challenge, but I learned something new every game and spent those 5 games simply learning how to play.

All of Vinadil's post is worth quoting and remembering.

Some people will tell you to specialize your planets as manufacturing, economic (population), or research. My style only specializes the very small planets as research and anything with a 7 rating or higher is balanced, or an attempt is made at balance. Still others will specialize every planet as research heavy for "x" part of the game, then convert over to manufacturing once they have researched up the tech tree and other races have started to build a military.

The key is to find an infrastructure system that works for you.

Have two or three farms on that world though, for the increased population will increase production

That quote is incorrect. Population has nothing to do with production values. Population does give you increased tax revenue and influence as well as more votes in the UP meetings. However, you do need to pair your farms with entertainment improvements to keep your growing population happy. Keep in mind if you overpopulate a planet, it doesn't matter how many entertainment tiles you have, the people will be unhappy because they can't even move.

2c

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this is the best piece of advice.
I did this my self when i first got it. I think i pressed Ctrl N over a hundred times that day, not getting a better galaxy only cause i learned something new i thought owuld give me an edge so i restarted.

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Not always true. For maps with more numerous planets, it's both cheaper and faster to buy factories while building ships than it is to buy ships and build factories.

this is true.
it costs i believe 10x in credits to buy something then to build it

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Be careful of Precursor Libraries and Precursor Mines. While they are a huge bonus, someone pointed out quite truthfully that they can kill you early on - the costs of operating them are much greater than you would think, because of the huge bonus. Build an Industrial Sector on one, then add a Manufacturing Capital to the planet, and watch your costs skyrocket!

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New to 4X games huh ????
Forget ALL other advice ...

1st - Xplore the local space ...
2nd - Xpand by building colony(s)
3rd - oops, do some other X-things ...
4th - Xterminate ALL other races !!!!!
And have FUN !!!!!!

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3rd - oops, do some other X-things ...

Exploit?

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Yea, hehe, I hear you. GalCiv2 is my first 4x game. Didn't know what to make of it at first, but I quickly got sucked into the depth of it. Totally, the opposite of the mindless games I'd been playing. Anyway, it takes a few games to figure out what the hell you're doing. One thing that got me was the whole approval thing. Took me a game or two to figure out you have to jocky the tax rate. Also, when the population gets too high, it's very hard to keep them happy. I don't build more than one farm on a planet. Then I had a hard time with the ship builder. Building your own ships is a critical advantage and can take a while to get a handle on. But, I feel comfortable with it all now and I'm enjoying this game more than any I've played.

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make a point of figuring out what it is that gets you attacked. you have to understand that or you get wiped out before you have a chance to figure out the ropes.

planets close to opponent planets = influence war -> outright war
weaker military = easy prey -> ouch
warships(especially troop transports) near opponent planet = eminent threat -> preemptive strike sooner or later
low diplomacy = degrading relationship -> eventual war(and bad trading in meantime)
different philosophy(allignment) = intolerance -> get off my lawn!
mil or influence starbases in their territory = naked agression -> get the @#%& off my lawn!!!!!!

simular philosophy = domestic harmony -> improving relationship
trade routes = economic dependancy -> good pal o' mine
stronger military = fear/respect -> peace (and eventualy fruit baskets)
stronger diplomacy = love/respect -> christmas cards

make special note of the trade route thing, this one is not so obvious to new players. tossing lots of freighters their direction is a great way to shore up a relationship with an ai you don't want to get into a war with(not foolproof tho).

allowing the ai to colonize the little planets in your territory may be great once you know the ropes but early on it can ammount to big trouble. concider throwing colony ships with few colonists at these just to keep your borders nice and clean.

there are other things i haven't mentioned(and prob a few i forgot) but they are more of mid/late game issues. hope this helps you get over the hump

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I don't understand the whole "ship building is hard" thing. I'm not trying to insult the people who have problems with it, I just flat out don't understand. Could someone explain it to me? I got it right on my first try: "Alright, this needs a gun and an armor and a life support. Now, how many engines can I fit on this baby..."

Also: Is that really what 4X means? I keep intending to ask but I never remember.

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Also: Is that really what 4X means? I keep intending to ask but I never remember.

eXplore
eXpand
eXploit
eXterminate
4X

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Thanks a lot for the replies guys! Many, many useful bits of info. I feel better knowing I was not the only one who felt like he was "missing" something at the beginning. I'm definitely going to keep playing incorporating what I've read here. Very helpful community, good times.

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The problem for me with the "ship building thing" was initially the editor itself. Failing to view the tutorial (my bad), I had a hard time figuring out that things had to be cursored exactly over the mount points before they would take. Also, I got through the tech tree pretty far before I tried building my own ships the first time and found the lists of stuff intimidating. There's not always a direct correlation to items in the lists and the tech tree which confused me. Items are sorted alphabetically (sort of) and it makes it hard to find "best items" when the lists are long. There's a lot of stuff there and figuring out the best way to equip a ship for a particular task can be intimidating the first time. It's generally not a simple thing. I have a good handle on it now, but it took me a quick game or two to get it wired.

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