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Join Date 05/2003
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Range - too far?

do we need some lower values or even different mechanics?

April 4, 2006 4:05:07 AM from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I think that ship ranges still are too generous in the game (playing 1.1-Beta2A) - you put one range module (or even none at all) in your ships and are fine for most if not all purposes. This is especially true on the smaller maps, but true enough on the larger ones which I play usually. Researching the later range modules isn't that important either because usually you don't really need them.

What I'd like to see is a modest range reduction in general and a larger difference between the different range modules - this could make range modules more interesting overall and their research more important.

Please feel free to comment or show your support.
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XMasterDaveX
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #1 April 4, 2006 6:31:56 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
True !!!

compared with older 4x Space Games (like MoO1/2, Reach for the Stars...) the Range of GalCiv Spaceships is very high. After a couple of turns, you could reach every edge of the Map. Spacestations, unlimited Rangemoduls for every Ship, and the long Basic Ranges from the beginning will make the exploration of Range technologie useless.

That is very unfortunate.
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Veranator
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #2 April 4, 2006 6:43:03 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I concur. Is this editable in the XML files now?
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Civ3Fanatic
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Reply #3 April 4, 2006 6:52:22 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
knowing galciv2 it probably is
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Vorlone
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #4 April 4, 2006 7:12:30 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I concur. Is this editable in the XML files now?

Yes it is editable in GC2Types.xml under "LifeSupport"
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Join Date 05/2003
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Reply #5 April 4, 2006 7:13:23 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Is this editable in the XML files now?

Yes, look for "LifeSupport" in GC2Types.xml.

But I'm not sure, perhaps the problem aren't the modules themselves, but the range +x% modifiers (given by techs etc.). Depending on when and how they're applied to ship range, they might be a major factor. It would be interesting to know how they work.
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Skelton42
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #6 April 4, 2006 7:48:38 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
the Range of GalCiv Spaceships is very high. After a couple of turns, you could reach every edge of the Map


?? I'm not sure what map size you are using, but I've played on the gigantic map where a ship with 6.5 range still didn't have the range to scout out the opposite side of the map. Granted, I sent a long range constructor and that made up the difference, but at the mid game point it still took near 20 turns to send ships that far (speed 9 ships with 6.5 range). I'll belive your comment on the smaller maps, but it's way off base on the larger maps.
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JesperEB
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Reply #7 April 4, 2006 8:22:03 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
But I'm not sure, perhaps the problem aren't the modules themselves, but the range +x% modifiers (given by techs etc.). Depending on when and how they're applied to ship range, they might be a major factor. It would be interesting to know how they work.


Yes, this is indeed the biggest problem here. Because the +range bonuses from each level of the tech are given to all ships even if they have no support modules. So when you research a new level of lifesupport all your old ships can suddenly go further away from home than before. I havent done any indepth analysis of the effects but it seems to me that each level of support adds almost a whole sector to your range.

In my opinion that freebie bonus to range should be dropped and instead the range on each module upped a bit so you have to put them on your ships. Otherwise there is almost no point in using the high level support modules since your basic range will be plenty for most things.

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sirusx
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #8 April 4, 2006 8:27:45 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
yah it would slow things down a bit in the begining and the land grab could continue a little longer
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kapeman
Join Date 11/2004
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Reply #9 April 4, 2006 8:34:50 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
[quoteah it would slow things down a bit in the begining and the land grab could continue a little longer]

I think that would be a good thing.
The last game I played on challenging, the AI vastly out colonized me right from the beginning.
I never had much of a chance because of this as they were WAY ahead of me in every category.
And believe me, I colonize as quickly as possible. I don't see how the AI was able to do this.
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Astax
Join Date 04/2003
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Reply #10 April 4, 2006 8:34:55 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Range is scaled by map size. On a tiny map the range is frikin tiny. I cant imagine playing with tiny-type range on a Gigantic map thou. It would take you ages and 8 star bases to connect star clusters together.
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MurderMunkey
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #11 April 4, 2006 8:35:27 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
The ranges should be scalable to the size of the map; the smaller the map, the shorter the range and vice versa.
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Join Date 05/2003
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Reply #12 April 4, 2006 8:53:47 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Yes, this is indeed the biggest problem here. Because the +range bonuses from each level of the tech are given to all ships even if they have no support modules. So when you research a new level of lifesupport all your old ships can suddenly go further away from home than before. I havent done any indepth analysis of the effects but it seems to me that each level of support adds almost a whole sector to your range.

In my opinion that freebie bonus to range should be dropped and instead the range on each module upped a bit so you have to put them on your ships. Otherwise there is almost no point in using the high level support modules since your basic range will be plenty for most things.

Glad to see my intuition didn't fail me about the +range bonuses. I agree that this is something Stardock should consider changing.
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CraftyMule
Join Date 03/2003
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Reply #13 April 4, 2006 9:25:00 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Just a quick post to agree that cutting down the rang a bit would be a good thing. The speed that you can build colony ships is the early game growth constraint right now, even in a gigantic galaxy.
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Astax
Join Date 04/2003
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Reply #14 April 4, 2006 9:34:46 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
The speed that you can build colony ships is the early game growth constraint right now, even in a gigantic galaxy.


No it's not. I can't think of a game in Beta 1.1 where that was the only limiting factor. I would run myself to the poor-house because the pop growth rates are so cut the 12 BC maintenece from new colonies is a killer.
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Rygel XVI
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #15 April 4, 2006 11:24:00 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I’m just afraid that games will be like Civ III when the Zulus on the other side of the swamp declare war on you. Then you have to wait for twelve turns or so before they come knocking on the gates. I think Douglas Adams wrote something to that effect as well. As long as range doesn’t get nerfd too much I think it’s a good idea.



Rygel XVI - Dominar to over 600 billion (more or less) loyal subjects.
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CraftyMule
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Reply #16 April 4, 2006 1:49:56 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
No it's not. I can't think of a game in Beta 1.1 where that was the only limiting factor. I would run myself to the poor-house because the pop growth rates are so cut the 12 BC maintenece from new colonies is a killer.


Fair enough. To make my point more precisely, it is the primary constraint I face. I wish it were less of an issue, so that focusing on exploration and range technology made a more significant difference in your ability to expand.

To me, the biggest key (although not the only) is tuning my expansion and my economy such that I can expand as fast as my economy and population growth will allow. I do fall behind technologically and in other areas, but I make up for that in a big way later.

Range is mostly irrelevant for expansion, because with a couple of the base range modules on your ship, you can just expand the number of planets you own, growing without hinderence until you meet the opposition. Whomever manages that economic/population/expansion phase best has a huge advantage.

I will continue to tweak my game settings to try and get the game I want setup. I think it is in there somewhere. I have made stars = common, planets = occasional, and habitable planets = occasional. Next I think I will tune down the number of anomolies to remove the burst money and 2-3 more colony ships they bring.
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Veranator
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #17 April 5, 2006 1:16:44 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
anyone play test with modded range values to reduce expansion rates at the beginning of the game?
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