alexander_west

Join Date 03/2006

AI Weaknesses

I've now played the game against Genius AIs (still have to play against Incredible) but I noticed it doing a few things wrong that it also does on the Bright level. I feel these are fairly obvious mistakes to be avoided...

1) The AI never builds farms. This not only means that the AI has a limited revnue base to do construction and research with, but also that its' worlds are that much easier to conquer, because they all contain either 5 or 10 billion people.

2) Maybe the number of troops to land on a world is hard-coded, rather than dynamicly determined, but the AI almost never invades my planets with enough troops to take the planet over. I usually have 15-22 billion people on my planets, and they are pretty capable at fighting off invasion after invasion of 1000-2000 troops. On the flip side, I figure out how many troops are needed to defeat a given enemy, and tailor-make my troop transporters to carry just enough soldiers to obtain victory.

3) The AI builds Super-Projects on top of special resources... particularly food and morale. Maybe these aren't useful because it doesn't build farms, but I find these to be crucial assets within my own empire. (It is also annoying that these can not be dismantled. Sometimes I'd rather scuttle on Omega defense to get a +100% morale resource on a conquered planet.)

4) The AI doesn't seem to specialize planets depending on the resources found there or the size of the planet. It seems to build fairly similar items on all planets. A few times my spies have revealed that various types of capitols have been constructed on Class 7 or 8 worlds when the AI has a a Class 16 that would have made a much better choice. Likewise, the AI will sometimes build more than one type of capitol on the same world, limiting the full advantage of utilizing that capitol with buildings that are synergistic with it.

5) The AI trades technology a little too willingly. I don't like disabling tech trading, because I think it is a cool (and pseudo-realistic) part of being a space-faring civilization. However, when I play, I choose a few races I want to be friends with and am more willing to trade tech with them. Maybe if the AI stuck to the couple races that they had the closest relations with, or just their allies, instead of trading with everyone, a happy medium would be found.

6) The AI trades technologies with a galactic achievement before they build the galactic achievement. This is something I never am willing to do unless I'm desperate for credits. Generally, the biggest advanatge of developing a technology like Habitat Improvement, is the ability to get Aphrodisiac reliably. The galactic projects offer huge bonuses for a civilization, and the computer should protect this advantage as zealously as I would. (In Civ IV, the computer is very good about this.)

7) The AI doesn't discriminate between which technologies it trades. As a player, I am always more willing to give up a technology I know other races have because I know those other races may also trade it away. I usually have a list of technologies I don't want to share, and just don't trade them with anyone else.

8) Maybe some of the AI races (like the Diplomacy heavy humans) should get a tech-trader flag, that makes them buy and re-sell technologies as much as possible. Kind of like the Militaristic quality, but instead of aggresively attacking planets, they aggresively buy and re-sell technology throughout the galaxy. This would be another good alternative to disabling tech-trading: making the computer fill the role so that the player has much less opportunity for advantage doing this.

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Just some comments on your observations. First of all, Inteliigent is the highest AI - all unlocked, so past there the AI is only getting cash bonuses.

1) If anything, the AI sometimes overbuilds farms and cant keep his morale in check. I regularly see 21b+ worlds.

2) There's a secondary factor here. They might not win, but they can hurt you economically by using Death Squad type invasion tactics. Basically, kamikaziing 1000 troops, using Core Detonation and taking out 5b of your populace hits you straight where it hurts - in the pocket!

3) AI build tactics do seem a bit awry in most games I've played.

4) See 3

5) Again, I tend to see this happen after the first say 1/4 of the game. The AI is at war with his enemies so he isnt tech trading with them. I've had gigantic galaxies with all races where they've all totally stopped trading with each other, I could tell because they all had different techs to trade. They also get more and more reluctant to trade out weapons or military techs.

6) I agree

7) See 5. They do stop trading military techs in most of my games.

8) Most people seem to think that the AI does this too much already, thus the cries for No Tech Trading. It seems to be fairly well balanced in most games I've played to be honest.

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The A.I also isn't self aware.....this really bugs me.

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2415

Different computer players play differently.

The AI does value different techs very differently. Though again, depends on which player.

There isn't a single "AI". Each one will do different things.

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1) AI & Farms: the AI definitely builds farms. I've captured worlds that are overbuilt with farms and I have to promptly scuttle 3 or 4 of them.

2) AI & Troops: I haven't had a problem here. Of course, I don't go farm crazy so most of my planets have 5 or 10b people.

3) AI & resource tiles: Agreed. I've seen this a lot. The AI seems compelled to plant super projects on resource tiles.

4) AI & capitals: it does better than me! I always forget to build the capitals at all.

5) AI & trading: I've noticed them holding back military techs with the latest full patch. But they trade EVERYTHING else freely.

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I have generally avoided commenting on the AI, since I haven't had as much opportunity to play as most. (I can only play at night when the kids are sleeping.) But I have played through a half dozen games against intellegent AI's now, and I have won all of the games. Wasn't even close. At no time was I afraid that I might lose a game. The biggest problems I have with the AI is that they do not build up their worlds very well, and they do not make their ships fast enough to pose a threat. I never really care if an AI opponent declares war on me, as they won't get to attack me for another 3-4 turns at least, which is enough time to build up a defense. (The Drengin are the worst at this, they never seems to build a quick enough military to do much.)

Don't get me wrong, the game is fun, but I am very surprised that it is as easy as it is. I had a much harder time playing GC1. I would assume this is because in GC1, you could build the same acheivements on every world - so the AI could script this - and all ships had the same stats - so the AI didn't have to figure out how to build them. I am sure that these problems will be fixed slowly as the devs figure out how people are playing the game, so I am not too worried. I have a lot of ideas as to how to code the AI to build ships, as that is what my actual job is. (I work developing defense systems, at a high level.) And I have a lot of experience coding. (I used to code control algorithms for systems.) But I don't really have many ideas how to rework the planet development code.

Anyway, good job with the game, and all the accolades you have gotten. I am sorry if I sounded mean or critical. I hope that coming months go well for everyone at Stardock.

-Marty

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It's possible some AIs do build farms, but my personnal experience (intelligent setting) is that they don't build nearly enough, and that the same goes for economy boosting buildings. I routinely end up with a pop and an economy larger than that of all the other players put together even before I start conquering their worlds.
I pretty much agree with the original poster about the fast ships, and here are some other thoughts :
-something which can only be described as a bug : the AI will sometimes have a lot (15+) ships on the same square, but it will only make one fleet. It goes like this : you have a fleet, which you use to take out his fleet and as many individual ships as your movement allows. Next turn, the first three or four or whatever (depending on logistics) first remaining ships have been used to make a new fleet, but the rest remain ungrouped, allowing you to take them out easily, and so on.
-the AI probably starts building military ships too early, especially as it (even the supposedly militaristic flavours) does not use them aggressively enough. In one game, I had the Yor and Drengin as neighbours, I built up my indutrial capacity and economy while they were building up their fleets, stayed at a military rating of ZERO for a very long time, and they did not attack me. Finally, I decided I was developped enough and was able to take them both out (at the same time) with a fleet that I built in less than twenty turns (my economy dwarfed everybody else's).

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I noticed a completely different AI problem than any mentioned here and one completely different than what Jbeuh mentioned about the AI early fleets.

I was playing the campaign and the first 3 maps are tiny and small (sizes I had not yet played in my handful of random games).

On the first map as soon as I got the tech to make military ships (defenders) I did so and the Drengin did too. I ended up getting killed by his military advantage so I restarted the game.

This time I concentrated on my economy and techs and making a strong military starbase in the middle of the map and ignored making fleets because I just watched the civilizations screen and noticed he wasn't making any either (he, like me was making starbases).

Eventually I reached planetary invasion and I built a couple of troop modules. I went all the way across the map and invaded his 2 worlds with nary a shot fired from any military ship despite both of us having lots of tech and economy to make them.

I was stunned by this. I then repeated this exact same thing on the next 2 missions. As long as I refrained from making military and worked on starbases (even military ones) he avoided making his own military and I was able to conquer 1-2 planets just by sending in troop transports.

Now eventually he WILL make military ships if left long enuff (or if my ally the Altarians do) but it clearly looks like on tiny and small galaxies a single AI opponent (or maybe a couple opponents) won't even leave a scout ship in orbit to prevent this 'fools mate' against his planets.

BTW, I was playing on painful level in the campaign which I assume is where he gets 125% economy bonus.

KGB

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