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Bisio
Bisio
Join Date 09/2004
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AI planet develop VERY poor

Lot of cutlure , no factory / research

March 11, 2006 7:58:25 AM from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Hello!
I was wondering if you're experiencing the same trouble with AI as i am right now.

To start i play only on very high AI settings which *should* provide a challenge.
In reality (tried several game with ai on intelligent/genius and one time even incredible) it seems AI planet are extremely poorly developed no matter the race and the game settings.

It seems the ai prioritize a lot culture enhancing building (which i consider next to worthless) totally forgetting about factory and to a minor degree research compounds.

So it's not unusual to find a PQ 10 planet with 1 starport 4 culture building 1-2 factory 1-2 research center 1-2 farm
That would be unusual if it were only one.. the problem is most of AI planets follow this layout which mean AI industrial capacity if it weren't for the bonus of the difficulty level is so low there is no fun playing at all (same about research...)

Now to the dev is it so hard to make the AI prioritize more factory/research compound ?
Is it impossible to avoid building idiotic starport on a class 3 planet with no factory ? (for me small planets -> research all the way)
Is it 'normal' to see 2 bank on a planet without farm to increase population ? (better 1 farm 1 bank ... or even better 1 farm 1 morale)

Is it deserving for an AI on genius setting to have a PQ 15 planet with 1 technology capital and only 1 research center (and 6 embassy.....) ? (wouldn't it be better 1 tecnology capital 5 research center and if you must 1 embassy ?)

I can go on for hours about those poor layout... i'm aware layout may vary about game style but i still think there must be something wrong here especially on those higher setting!
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Bisio
Ostsol
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #1 March 11, 2006 1:33:18 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Where was the planet in relation to that civ's influence border. I've read that an AI will sometimes start converting buildings to cultural centres if another civ's influence starts coming close to or starts eveloping the planet.
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Bisio
Bisio
Join Date 09/2004
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Reply #2 March 11, 2006 3:03:06 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I didn't know that, thanks for the imput!

However i find this behaviour mostly on Homeplanet which are , especially in the very beginning of the game, well under the ai influence border !

After you have High espionage level you can check all AI planet so you can check for yourself in your own game without conquering them... i found out that on 30 planets left (playing on large with all AI this is the amount of planet i usually don't own once i have high espionage on crippling level) maybe 1-2 of those is a good planet..the other are absolute crap/underdevoloped/badly developed
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Bisio
Veranator
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #3 March 11, 2006 6:45:36 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I tend to agree. It seems the planets are underutilized by the AI. You'll notice they dont always build a factory on a production bonus tile or a lab on a research bonus tile. AI probably needs a few tweeks. I've been playing with all the AI set to intelligent too.
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Bisio
syneris
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #4 March 11, 2006 9:13:52 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Are you sure this isn't a human flaw in planet utilization? I've noticed that if i put a factory onto a rare 700% bonus that my production for that planet shoot through the roof (ya ofcourse). While it may look like a good thing, i've also notice some problems arise on that planet. My global spending becomes imbalanced, and I tend to waste more. The AI can micromanage much better than most people really could/should care about (unless it's funtfor you to spend a few hours thinking about each individual tile choice). Have you ever gone back to a planet after researching down the morale line and built over a morale improvement becuase it wasn't needed?
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Bisio
Bisio
Join Date 09/2004
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Reply #5 March 12, 2006 2:20:15 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Symeris :
Thanks for your imput aswell.
Your point is well taken and i hope there is some truth in there (i don't code the ai so i can't be sure) ... however i tend to disagree.

If a planet have a 300% manufacturing tile i *always* use it as a factory because imho the advantage are far more relevant than disadvantage... this may open to discussion however so for now i'll leave it out of the consideration.

About your 'micromanaging' stuff i 'd like to know if you can 'explain' as a micromanaging option the following which i really can't get it :

1) 3 years in the game (that is more than 100 turns) finding out good PQ planet (let's say 15) in possession of the AI from the very beginning with 5-6 tile unused.. for me that's insane!

2) In my previous game i found an economic capital on a class 4 planet !!! (Wisp...) that is plain absurd

And all of the above in my previous post.

For me the way AI prioritize building is seriously flawed no matter what race... imho opinion cultural building are too much overrated for their real usefulness
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Bisio
Black_Shade
Join Date 07/2003
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Reply #6 March 12, 2006 3:58:17 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
i have found similar strange AI building behavior on the harder difficulties as well. Not only is the AI building huge amounts of cultural centers- they are building all their superprojects on special tiles. While the cultural centers is understandable, since i usually go for a culture flip on half their worlds so i can surprise attack their remaining 3-4 planets in 1 turn, the special tiles is very confusing. the kicker was in my current game, i flipped drengi, which was now a PQ 30 or so planet because they had a special discovery. Anyways, on drengi, they had TWO tiles that were +700% manufactoring, but built on them were 2 superprojects that had nothing to do with manufacturing.

This causes two major problems: 1) the AI falls behind on building, why would you waste those 2 tiles on superprojects? they are equivalent to 14 factories for the space of 2 tiles, but they instead waste them.

2) you cant destroy super projects, so in the event that the AI no longer needs the project or i capture their planet, i cant destroy them. Im not sure why you cant destroy superprojects, you should be able to. This is especially frustrating if you conquer a planet that has all 3 manufactoring capitols on it, recieving almost no benfit from any of them, and also making it impossible for you to build them on your own worlds (unless they are already in the build queue). So, not only does the special tile slot go to waste, but you also lose the ability to build the project on your own planets which are usually more well thought out than the AIs. This is not exactly the same issue as poor AI building, but more of an after effect of their poor building.
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Bisio
userfriendly
Join Date 05/2003
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Reply #7 March 12, 2006 4:58:20 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I have been playing at intelligent and I too see the same AI problems. If the devs can improve this then the AI will be much tougher overall without complex analysis of game play or major coding. I will summarize again what I have seen myself and what has been mentioned above:
- High quality planets are vastly underutilised overall even very late game in a Gigantic galaxy on intelligent.
Note: Above intelligent level AI is not improved the AI just gets eco, manufaturing, diplo bonuses etc.... at least in GC1 its like this.
- The AI seems to choose randomly which squares to build which i thnk leads to stupid stuff like moral improvement on a farm square and vice versa.
- Culture improvements are too highly favoured especially on minors...
- Building the superprojects or captial improvements on level 5 planets or less is a huge handicap for the AI, especially as they are already not using the free squares on their beytter planets.

I hope these issues get fixed fairly soon as this for me is the biggest AI fault area at the moment. I think the devs will fix this son though since they have been very reacative so far

Another area where I hope the AI gets better is:
-Better population management: - They send out troop carriers leaving some planets with just a few billion.
-They build expensive planetary defenses (OK) , but then leave it defended by one low powered ship!!
- When a planet gets attacked they build a weak ship afterwards, even if an armada is on their dorrstep... harder to code this I suppose...
- When you donate a small fleet to a friendly AI they, dont fleet it themselves, leaving it much weaker. They also dont attak any easy targets close to the location you gave them the ships.
- The AI builds several unimproved starbases eg eco, culture instead of fewer starbases but improving them.

GCII AI was adverstised as improved, but this is not yet the case. I hope other players will start to comment more on the AI weakpoints to ensure the devs push the AI enhancement up their priority list.
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Bisio
Veranator
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #8 March 12, 2006 9:14:16 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Excellent posts guys, I'm sure the devs will get a handle on this quickly. I've played about 10 gmaes now and this issue is my biggest gripe right now.... still... it's a stellar game!!
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Bisio
jwquinn
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #9 March 12, 2006 10:29:04 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I tend to agree that I do not understand why the AI builds the way it does. However, I do think I understand the under utilization of some special squares. Food bonuses, for example. the AI (or human players as well) should avoid putting farms on them if the planet quality is 10-12 or less, otherwise population goes up too much and morale takes a hit (though, one strategy might be to perpetually send out troop transports from such a planet). There may be similar reasons for some of the other apparent quirks in the AI choices.
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Bisio
Bisio
Join Date 09/2004
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Reply #10 March 12, 2006 10:56:59 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I 'm very glad this topic seems to have taken off and many people playing at higher level have found out this 'strange behaviour'

If someone would be so kind to list all this 'suspicious behaviour' both already posted both new on a good layout maybe we can point them to some dev for review

In the end is our feedback which may help the devs improve the game even more!
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Bisio
Bisio
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Reply #11 March 12, 2006 10:57:29 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I 'm very glad this topic seems to have taken off and many people playing at higher level have found out this 'strange behaviour'

If someone would be so kind to list all this 'suspicious behaviour' both already posted both new on a good layout maybe we can point them to some dev for review

In the end is our feedback which may help the devs improve the game even more!
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