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Razius
Join Date 03/2006
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Cargo-Battleships?

March 7, 2006 6:40:13 PM from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I haven't experimented with the feasibility of this type of ship, of course, but here's the idea:

Early on, the enemy only gets Tiny & Small hulls. So, put a bunch of weapons on cargo ships. You can only take one hit, so to counter that you cram a bunch of defense on the ship with all that extra space, like 2 armors, 2 shields, and 2 ecms. Later, you can convert them into transports or decommission them.

What do you think?
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Razius
Brillig
Join Date 03/2003
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Reply #1 March 7, 2006 7:00:00 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
The problem is defense only gives you a chance of reducing damage - it's not a guarantee. You'll still get hit, and that'll be all she wrote.
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Civ3Fanatic
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Reply #2 March 7, 2006 7:05:14 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
definetly not a good idea one hit and all that production is down the drain my guess is that it wouldnt work
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Dewwar
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #3 March 7, 2006 7:05:27 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
You'd be better off axing the defences and making a first strike fleet. Do so much damage that nothing survives the first volley....

But it's still a hell of a money risk.

-Dewar
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Need3Lives
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Reply #4 March 7, 2006 7:06:19 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I assume cargo hulls can gain HP from experience like any other. Assuming you could use the cargo hulls selectively in battles they are guaranteed to win in one round (like attacking troop transports, colony ships, scouts or constructors), after a few fights they would start to gain some decent hit points. If you could get them past 10 or so HP, it would probably be (relatively) clear sailing from there... of course, their value would be pretty marginalized later when large hulls are researched. Interesting though - may have to try it out.
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Cold_illusion
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Reply #5 March 7, 2006 7:10:22 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Hahahaha! I made a huge mistake like that in my 3rd campain... I think it was my third... I had cargo ships with weapons and armor on it, and they wheer dieing in one hit, and I'm like, WTF, THIS IS GAY! then I realized my mistake after going through about 30 ships...
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Olzeek
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Reply #6 March 7, 2006 7:25:29 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Yup same thing happened to me. "Why are my cruisers getting killed by fighers?" It took me a few turns to figure out that my "cargo" ship crusiers (with no definese I might add) only had 1 hp. Doh!
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Russcrush
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Reply #7 March 7, 2006 7:40:42 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Ha!!

I tried that! It was a disaster!
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CorbieKitaal
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Reply #8 March 7, 2006 7:41:53 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I havent had the chance to test this personally yet.. BUT..

When you put a troop carrier in a fleet... the other ships "protect it" in a fight. What this basicly means is that the troop carrier is attacked last.

So, I dunno if it will work or not.. but if you were to throw one troop mod on a cargo hull.. and then use the rest of the space on engines/weapons... you may be able to create a nice little "Weapons Platform(tm)" that the enemy ships will target last... but can pound on them while your other ships are distracting them.
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Jim Winsor
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Reply #9 March 7, 2006 8:13:11 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Another thought: BattleCargos might be useful in a Dread Lords campaign. Since a DL ship will likely kill anything you build in the beginning with just one shot anyways, why not just pack a bunch of weapons onto a cargo hull? All weps, zero defense of course. Maybe enough first strike potential to actually win unscathed against their no-defense ships.
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zbiggie
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Reply #10 March 7, 2006 8:52:47 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Hahahaha! I made a huge mistake like that in my 3rd campain... I think it was my third... I had cargo ships with weapons and armor on it, and they wheer dieing in one hit, and I'm like, WTF, THIS IS GAY! then I realized my mistake after going through about 30 ships...


yea i did the same which really sucked cause i was being attacked and lost all but earth. since earth had my only ships without being cargo. I ended up getting my planets back but not after i went into debt 6 times. building fleets to recapture the planets.
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Entropy Avatar
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Reply #11 March 7, 2006 9:42:35 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
When you put a troop carrier in a fleet... the other ships "protect it" in a fight. What this basicly means is that the troop carrier is attacked last.


The reason the troop carrier is attacked last is because it has no weapons. If you put weapons on it, it would be attacked first.
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PJ_
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Reply #12 March 7, 2006 11:04:49 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums
I'll confirm that. I thought it would be good to strap a laser onto it, so it could help out in the fight. I wasn't thinking about the numbers and the "which ship to attack" formula.
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AbstractEgo
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Reply #13 March 8, 2006 5:16:29 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Has Anyone Tested The +25HP From WarParty On This? Might Make It VERY Easy To Start Off This Way
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Arcanum3000
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Reply #14 March 8, 2006 5:50:38 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
The reason the troop carrier is attacked last is because it has no weapons. If you put weapons on it, it would be attacked first.


Unless you build it on a real ship hull. I like building transports on a medium ship hull with a little armor and one weapon. It's still attacked last as long as there's some other ship in the fleet, and it can contribute a little to a battle.
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Popup Target
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Reply #15 March 8, 2006 5:54:11 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums
AbstractEgo, that's 25%, not +25HP. This would turn 1 HP into 1.25 HP, which would round down to 1HP.
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e-stab
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Reply #16 March 8, 2006 5:56:40 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Has Anyone Tested The +25HP From WarParty On This? Might Make It VERY Easy To Start Off This Way

No, 1 HP plus 25% (even +99%) is still 1 HP.
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Reply #17 March 8, 2006 7:55:33 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Leave it to a sneaky, backstabbing, treacherous Liao to put guns on a transport freighter

OK, now that my Davion streak has been exposed, back on topic.

I see two scenarios where this would be of value, both of which would occur in the early to mid game.

1: Raider, as mentioned above. Pile on one gun, lots of engines, and lots of sensors. Pick off unescorted transports, constructors, colony ships, and undefended starbases. Make sure you can see those hunting you and run faster than they can hunt, 'cause you're dead if you're caught by anything you don't attack first.

2: Point defense in areas with military starbase bonuses. Starbase bonus modules add to your attack and defense ratings as long as you have at least one point in each. Equip a cargo hull with all three weapons and all three defenses early on, before you can pack all that foolishness onto a military hull. If it'll fit, add some engines so you can defend by attacking and get your starbase-boosted first shot in. Probably cheaper and easier just to upgrade your starbase, but this might be worth trying in specific situations.
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Astax
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Reply #18 March 8, 2006 8:35:16 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
EXCELLENT IDEA, cram all engines and one gun and you got the fastest moving ship to take out transports and colony ships and frieghters. Not to mention un upgraded starbases. And you are so fast enemy warships won't catch you!
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Kanil
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Reply #19 March 8, 2006 8:39:26 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Go away Davion!

Anyway, assuming basic technology, you're only going to fit about 6-8 damage on your freighter at best... and that's with little room for engines or sensors.

Freighters are like what, 5 logistics points? You won't have a very large fleet... 3-ish. So if I hit you with six tiny ships, we both lose 3 ships (or I lose less, if I'm lucky) and you die...
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syneris
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Reply #20 March 8, 2006 11:27:42 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Depending on how many logistics you start with, getting 3 cargos into a fleet would take an extra research that might be well suited elsewhere. Annoying having 14 logistics and having to wait for that next logistics just to fit a 3rd trooper transport into the fleet.
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GreatMirror
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Reply #21 March 9, 2006 12:22:38 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Well, in my slim experience, the more you try to mishmash your ships' roles too much, you get neither role done. The troop transport module is HUGE (can take up to 20 space). You could find better uses for it that sticking it in a gunship.

I would like, though, to be able to decimate a colony completely without conquering it using only orbital bombardment. Destroying the entire planet altogether would be cool too
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jefe414
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Reply #22 March 9, 2006 8:45:42 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Using freighters as commerce raiders during war is a viable option. As mentioned above putting sensors, engines and a single weapon on a transport allows for a long range, high speed and decent seneor ship that can attack enemy shipping at will. It is cheaper than using a ship of the line for such duty and is faster and more manuverable than a smaller fighter class ship. With good sensors it also doubles as an AWACs type vessel (man, my "Peeping Tom" class of ships have saved me more than once against the AIs end run with troop transports). Make sure of one thing though. Make sure that the UP didn't vote on armed and armored freighters or you might be in for a suprise!
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Reply #23 March 9, 2006 9:07:36 AM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums
Well I tested this option and it works well.

You just have create a transport with a lot of weapons early in the game, load it with a lot of weapons , nothing else, use if for atack only on small ships (this case you will probably fire first and kill on first fire) if you lucky enough you will make few victories with it so it get XP and there for HP will grow , after that .... you got the idea.
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