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Chris Woods
Chris Woods
Join Date 02/2006
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Can't determine the logic in Social vs. Military Production

February 25, 2006 2:09:05 PM from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Okay, maybe I'm confused here, but it seems like there is no consistency between Social and Military Production.

I make a new race with +30 social/+30 military and chose the industrialist party. My race is +50/+50. I check the race screen. Yup, +50/+50.

I set my Social/Mil/Research bar to 33/33/33

I look at my homeworld. It's making 6 Military, 3 Social and 4 Research. It's the first turn of the game and the planet isn't concentrating on any category.

Now I restart as the Torian. They have +0 Mil, +0 Soc, +0 Research. Same settings (everything equal) and my homeworld is producing 4 Military, 3 Social, 5 Research.

What the heck is going on? Shouldn't my custom race make more social then a race with +0 social? Shouldn't my Custom Race's Military = it's Social? Shouldn't Research be the same in both cases?

None of this makes any sense.

Chris Woods
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Chris Woods
Todd_Hawks
Join Date 04/2003
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Reply #1 February 25, 2006 2:33:00 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums
It's a well known bug, social production bonuses aren't applied at all (and research bonuses are halved). Unfortunately the devs are consistently ignoring all bug reports about this, so we don't even know if they intend to fix it.
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Chris Woods
Vanir
Join Date 04/2003
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Reply #2 February 25, 2006 2:34:18 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums
Unfortunately, the issues you're seeing are caused by some of the civ production bonuses not working. Civ Social Production bonuses do not work AT ALL. They do absolutely nothing. Civ Reasearch bonuses give about 1/2-2/3 of the amount they are supposed to. Military Production seems to be working correctly as far as I can tell.

Population growth bonuses are also worthless at the moment since pop growth is capped at 200 mil/turn.

Stardock is aware of all these bugs, so hopefully they'll be fixed on Thursday.
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Chris Woods
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Reply #3 February 25, 2006 2:34:52 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums
Opp, Todd beat me to it.
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Chris Woods
Dracil
Join Date 10/2003
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Reply #4 February 25, 2006 2:36:15 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums
It's a bug. Civ-wide social ability is USELESS, U-S-E-L-E-S-S!

Don't waste ability points on it.
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Chris Woods
Chris Woods
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #5 February 25, 2006 2:36:45 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Okay, another test:

I make a custom race with +50 social and industrialist party. I max out the industrial spending and set the social slider to 100%. I make 26 social construction on my HW and a factory or Entertainment center will take 2 weeks. All other buildings take 1 week.

I make another custom with +0 social and federalist party. I max out industrial spending and set the social slider to 100%. I make 26 social construction on my HW and a factory or Entertainment center will take 2 weeks. All other buildings take 1 week.

I don't understand, what does +70 Social actually /do/?

EDIT: Sorry, didn't refresh the thread. Thanks all.

Chris Woods
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Chris Woods
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Reply #6 February 25, 2006 2:39:21 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Stardock is aware of all these bugs, so hopefully they'll be fixed on Thursday.


You sure about that? I've been trying to get them to acknowledge the bugs (or even post in a relevant thread) for days now, but to no avail.
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Chris Woods
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Reply #7 February 25, 2006 2:48:15 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums
Yep. Look at the bottom of this thread: https://forums.galciv2.com/?ForumID=162&AID=100530
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Chris Woods
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Reply #8 February 25, 2006 3:50:20 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums
I dont mean to offend anyone, but HOW does a bug like that get through testing? Not one person decided to try theses bonuses? Its things like that make you wonder if the 'under the hood' stuff is all working sometimes. I mean if something that can be seen in the first minute goes unoticed, how about the bigger computational stuff that is harder to see?

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Chris Woods
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Reply #9 February 25, 2006 5:19:29 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums


I dont mean to offend anyone, but HOW does a bug like that get through testing? Not one person decided to try theses bonuses? Its things like that make you wonder if the 'under the hood' stuff is all working sometimes. I mean if something that can be seen in the first minute goes unoticed, how about the bigger computational stuff that is harder to see?


good point
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Chris Woods
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Reply #10 February 25, 2006 5:34:37 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums
Well, I can tell you I never really bothered with Production bonuses to begin with, because they usually just mean more cash drain when you aren't building stuff. We learned our lesson in GC1.
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Chris Woods
techn0mage
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #11 February 25, 2006 5:39:53 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums


Unfortunately because there is no transparency in how the production values are calculated, if you were working for SD as a QA tester you would have a heck of a time noticing that anything was wrong.  You can see what the values are, but it's anybody's guess how those values are arrived at.  Probably my biggest gripe about this excellent game.

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Chris Woods
kryo
Join Date 05/2003
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Reply #12 February 25, 2006 5:43:35 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums
I dont mean to offend anyone, but HOW does a bug like that get through testing?


It didn't. I know for a fact that Peace Phoenix mentioned it on several occasions during the beta, but it seems it got lost in the sea of things to fix.
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Chris Woods
techn0mage
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Reply #13 February 25, 2006 5:45:00 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums
(replying to myself) most importantly, anyone know if this has this been fixed in the latest patch?
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Chris Woods
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Reply #14 February 25, 2006 9:29:40 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums
No, it hasn't. That's why we're still talking about it
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Chris Woods
Todd_Hawks
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Reply #15 February 26, 2006 1:46:52 AM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums
Yep. Look at the bottom of this thread: https://forums.galciv2.com/?ForumID=162&AID=100530 Link


Lol, now he thinks it was introduced by the patch, which isn't the case, it never worked. Well, at least they'll hopefully take a look at it.
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Chris Woods
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Reply #16 February 26, 2006 5:52:03 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I dont mean to offend anyone, but HOW does a bug like that get through testing? Not one person decided to try theses bonuses? Its things like that make you wonder if the 'under the hood' stuff is all working sometimes. I mean if something that can be seen in the first minute goes unoticed, how about the bigger computational stuff that is harder to see?

well, sorry to nitpicking but have you seen the following threads:
https://forums.galciv2.com/?ForumID=274&AID=94769 (first report of this bug)
https://forums.galciv2.com/?ForumID=162&AID=102127

I know, it is pretty hard to spot those threads if you don't know that thye exists, but don't assume that it wasn't spotted in the beta and in the gamma.

For your information, I have spoken few weaks ago with CariElf an this topic. Ans it seems that having the correct behavior may means lots of tests to ensure that it won't broke the balance. But it would be nice to have an official word on this subject on the forum.

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Chris Woods
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Reply #17 February 26, 2006 11:04:54 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
That's what I feared.... that the AI and everything else has been tweaked to work *with* the bug and now they can't easily fix it without possibly screwing it up. If they really decide it's too much hassle they should at least take out the social balance bonus so people don't get deceived by their illusionary huge advantage.

I have to say though that it's really, really, really weak to leave that bug in for nearly half a year. Had they fixed it immediately, they wouldn't have had that many problems with game balance.
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